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Featured Why don't Baptists believe Acts 2:38 literally?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012.

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  1. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    "then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..."

    My Baptists friends tell me that they believe that this verse was incorrectly translated by the King James translators. The "for" in that verse should really be "because of". Do most Baptists believe this?

    I have looked at numerous other English translations of the Bible (ESV, New King James, and others), but they all translate the Greek word "eis" as "for" not "because of".

    Even Luther's German translation translates that word as "to".

    How do Baptists explain this?
     
    #1 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
  2. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    As a former Baptist, we'd explain it by pointing out since water baptism has nothing to do with salvation, then of course the word "eis" in that verse HAD TO MEAN "because of". In fact, similar explanations were offered for those other passages that implied water baptism was connected to salvation.
     
    #2 Doubting Thomas, Jul 23, 2012
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the passage in Acts 2;38 would be stating in the Greek text that we are called upon by god to be water baptized into the name of jesus, since/as HE is the One that has already washed and renewed us from our sins!
     
    #3 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2012
  4. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Your attempted explanation fails to note the distinction the objective accomplishment of the Atonement by Christ and the subjective appropriation of the same by the repentant believer.
     
    #4 Doubting Thomas, Jul 23, 2012
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not at all! jesus is the source of salvation, and we are to be baptised into Him, as in Him is our remission for our sins!

    remission for the sins are in him, not in the baptism itself!
     
    #5 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2012
  6. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    That is not what the simple, literal language of the text says.

    It says this: 1. repent.
    2. be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.

    Any other interpretation is not a literal interpretation. You are putting words in God's mouth.

    Believe the Bible literally, my Baptist friends, not your non-literal interpretation which has only been around since the time of the Anabaptists.

    a Lutheran Christian
    www.LutherWasNotBornAgain.com
     
    #6 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
  7. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    But Scripture teaches when we are baptized we put on Christ (Gal 3:27) and are buried and risen with Him (Rom 6:3-5, Col 2:12)
     
    #7 Doubting Thomas, Jul 23, 2012
  8. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Were you baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?
     
    #8 Alcott, Jul 23, 2012
  9. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    I was baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, as are all trinitarian Christians, including Baptists.

    I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, not in the name of John the Baptist, or in the name of any other baptizer.
     
    #9 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did you receive the Holy Spirit by faith in jesus, or by the water baptism? Does regeneration come from the baptism or faith in christ?
     
    #10 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2012
  11. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    So Jesus did not literally mean that the thief on the cross next to Him would be with Him in paradise. After all he had not been baptized.
     
    #11 mandym, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  12. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    We receive the Holy Spirit by the power of God's Word alone.
    We are saved by the power of God's Word alone.

    But when does God choose to use the power of his Word to save us and to give us the Holy Spirit? When we decide to be saved or when he decides we will be saved?

    Lutherans do not believe that any sinner has ever made a free will decision to be saved. According to the Bible the sinner is spiritually dead. God chooses whom and when to save. (See the second chapter of Colossians and Ephesians).

    Lutherans and most orthodox Christians believe that God chooses to save us by the power of his Word in two circumstances:

    1. When a non-believing adult hears/reads the Gospel and believes.
    2. When the Word of God is spoken during infant baptism.

    God always does the saving, not something man does. Our decision to be baptized does not saves us. Praying a prayer does not save us. God ALWAYS saves us by the power of his Word, at the time of his choosing, not ours.

    God predestined and elected us to be his children before the world existed. Then, sometime during our lifetime, at his choosing alone, He quickens us to be spiritually alive. Once we are spiritually alive, God gives us the gifts of faith, belief, repentance, and eternal life. None of these actions are performed by the sinner of his own free will because according to the second chapters of Colossians and Ephesians, the sinner is spiritually dead. Dead men cannot believe, have faith, or repent.

    Salvation is 100% a gift from God. He does it all! We are only passive participants to his saving action.

    We do not do good works to be saved. We do not say special prayers to be saved, whether it is the Rosary or the Baptist/evangelical "Sinnner's Prayer".

    This is why Lutherans and many other orthodox Christians believe that salvation can occur in two different situations:

    1. When an adult hears the Word and believes.
    He is saved the moment he believes. He doesn't have to wait to be baptized to be saved. If he dies without being baptized he will go to heaven.

    2. Acts chapter 2 promises salvation to the children of believers.
    In the Great Commission we are told to baptize all nations. There is no age restriction. Therefore Lutherans and other orthodox Christians baptize our children believing that God will use the power of his Word, spoken at baptism, to save/regenerate our children. It's not us doing anything that saves us. We are only following God's command to baptize them. It is God who does the saving, and He alone, in baptism. Magic words, magic water have no power. God's Word has incredible, supernatural power.

    Was it the water that healed Naaman in the OT or was it the power of God's Word?

    Remember believing and repenting are not acts of man, but acts of God. The sinner is spiritually dead, remember? So if God gives belief and repentance to the sinner, who can deny that God has the power to give faith, belief, and repentance to the infant?

    Orthodox Christians have supporting historical evidence. For instance, the Christians in the catacombs of Rome were baptizing their infants. This is before the state church was established by the Roman Emperor Constantine. The Church was not yet apostate but yet Christians were baptizing their infants all over the Roman Empire. There is no record of any schism in the Church over this issue.

    The idea of adult-only baptism is a European invention during the second millenium after Christ.

    For more information on the Lutheran doctrines of Baptism and Justification and many scripture verses to support them go to:
    http://www.LutherWasNotBornAgain.com
     
    #12 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  13. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    The Lutheran Church DOES NOT teach that you absolutely must be baptized to get into heaven. See my comments above for an explanation.
     
    #13 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
  14. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Then it serves no purpose to teach that it regenerates.
     
    #14 mandym, Jul 23, 2012
  15. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    You are being closed minded, my brother.
     
    #15 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
  16. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    OK????:confused:
     
    #16 mandym, Jul 23, 2012
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    That begs the issue! It just moves it up one peg. Does "for" mean "in order to" or "because of." It is used both ways in the KJV.

    Re 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for (Gr. eis) pain,

    Did the gnaw their tongues in order to get pain or because of pain?
     
    #17 The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2012
  18. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    Here are the Lutheran doctrines of Justification and Baptism

    We receive the Holy Spirit by the power of God's Word alone.
    We are saved by the power of God's Word alone.

    But when does God choose to use the power of his Word to save us and to give us the Holy Spirit? When we decide to be saved or when he decides we will be saved?

    Lutherans do not believe that any sinner has ever made a free will decision to be saved. According to the Bible the sinner is spiritually dead. God chooses whom and when to save. (See the second chapter of Colossians and Ephesians).

    Lutherans and most orthodox Christians believe that God chooses to save us by the power of his Word in two circumstances:

    1. When a non-believing adult hears/reads the Gospel and believes.
    2. When the Word of God is spoken during infant baptism.

    God always does the saving, not something man does. Our decision to be baptized does not saves us. Praying a prayer does not save us. God ALWAYS saves us by the power of his Word, at the time of his choosing, not ours.

    God predestined and elected us to be his children before the world existed. Then, sometime during our lifetime, at his choosing alone, He quickens us to be spiritually alive. Once we are spiritually alive, God gives us the gifts of faith, belief, repentance, and eternal life. None of these actions are performed by the sinner of his own free will because according to the second chapters of Colossians and Ephesians, the sinner is spiritually dead. Dead men cannot believe, have faith, or repent.

    Salvation is 100% a gift from God. He does it all! We are only passive participants to his saving action.

    We do not do good works to be saved. We do not say special prayers to be saved, whether it is the Rosary or the Baptist/evangelical "Sinnner's Prayer".

    This is why Lutherans and many other orthodox Christians believe that salvation can occur in two different situations:

    1. When an adult hears the Word and believes.
    He is saved the moment he believes. He doesn't have to wait to be baptized to be saved. If he dies without being baptized he will go to heaven.

    2. Acts chapter 2 promises salvation to the children of believers.
    In the Great Commission we are told to baptize all nations. There is no age restriction. Therefore Lutherans and other orthodox Christians baptize our children believing that God will use the power of his Word, spoken at baptism, to save/regenerate our children. It's not us doing anything that saves us. We are only following God's command to baptize them. It is God who does the saving, and He alone, in baptism. Magic words, magic water have no power. God's Word has incredible, supernatural power.

    Was it the water that healed Naaman in the OT or was it the power of God's Word?

    Remember believing and repenting are not acts of man, but acts of God. The sinner is spiritually dead, remember? So if God gives belief and repentance to the sinner, who can deny that God has the power to give faith, belief, and repentance to the infant?

    Orthodox Christians have supporting historical evidence. For instance, the Christians in the catacombs of Rome were baptizing their infants. This is before the state church was established by the Roman Emperor Constantine. The Church was not yet apostate but yet Christians were baptizing their infants all over the Roman Empire. There is no record of any schism in the Church over this issue.

    The idea of adult-only baptism is a European invention during the second millenium after Christ.

    For more information on the Lutheran doctrines of Baptism and Justification and many scripture verses to support them go to:
    http://www.LutherWasNotBornAgain.com
     
    #18 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
  19. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    The reason the translators translated like that was because they were pedobaptists. They believed in baptismal regeneration and infant baptism. They showed a similar bias by not translating baptizo which means to immerse dip or plunge in Greek. The English baptism is a transliteration. The translators were not practicing immersion--immersion would be contrary to their dogma.

    This also points to the fact that translators are not inspired.

    Baptism is a work: it requires a candidate to submit and an administrator to perform.There are some reports of self-baptism. However baptism is still a work. Baptism is a picture of something which has already happened: death, burial and resurrection in which believers show they are following Jesus. Sprinkling infants pictures none of this.

    This is the same kind of schism which came up early in the churches--some said one had to be circumcised to be saved.

    Man somehow still thinks his righteous acts will gain access to heaven. See the Letter to the Ephesians ch. 2.

    Peace,

    Bro. James
     
    #19 Bro. James, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  20. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You stutter! This is repeated on nearly every thread word for word. You reasoning is unbiblical and that has been pointed out. Check the other threads
     
    #20 The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2012
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