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Featured Why don't Baptists believe in the literal interpretation of the ENTIRE Bible?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Wittenberger, Jul 22, 2012.

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  1. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    It amazes me how most Baptists claim to believe the literal interpretation of the Bible, but in actuality they only believe literally the verses that agree with their doctrines. We Lutherans and many other orthodox Christians believe the entire Bible literally.

    For instance, when the Bible says:

    "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

    We believe exactly what that verse says: If someone believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will be saved. He doesn't need to be baptized, do good deeds, or pray the Sinner's Prayer to be saved. If he dies two seconds after believing he will go to heaven. He is a Christian.

    And when the Bible says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." We believe that verse literally too. If you call on the name of the Lord, you will be saved. That verse says nothing about baptism, the Sinner's Prayer, or good deeds.

    Now, my Baptists friends, will YOU believe this verse literally"

    Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins."

    And how about this verse: "Why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling upon the name of the Lord."

    And this verse "baptism doth now save us".

    And the words of our Lord Jesus Christ in Mark 16:16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned."

    What? The Lutheran literal interpretation of the Bible seems contradictory?

    That is the simple, literal interpretation of the Bible, my friends. Read it and believe it. Read the Bible with the faith of a child, not with adult reason and logic as your Calvinist ancestors taught you.
     
    #1 Wittenberger, Jul 22, 2012
  2. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    This is a false accusation.

    Further, neither Lutherans nor anyone else believes in the literal interpretation of the entire Bible.

    Do Lutherans prohibit oath-taking based on the words of Jesus? The Anabaptists and Quakers do, but not the Lutherans, Calvinists, etc. Your premise is disproved; case closed.

    Oh, and this: The original Baptists were not Calvinists, so your broad-brush painting is in error there, also.
     
    #2 Michael Wrenn, Jul 22, 2012
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I guess they believe we must eat Jesus' flesh and drink His blood also. I wonder how we should do this?
     
    #3 steaver, Jul 22, 2012
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Are they plucking their eyes out and cutting off their hands??
     
    #4 steaver, Jul 22, 2012
  5. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Much of the Bible cannot be taken literally. Some of it is just parables or allegories. There is scripture talking about trees clapping their hands. Do trees have hands? We have to use common sense in reading the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us what it means, and not try to make the Bible fit what we want.
     
    #5 Jon-Marc, Jul 22, 2012
  6. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Great more arrogance on the board. Just what we need.
     
    #6 mandym, Jul 22, 2012
  7. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    Very good!

    Yes, there are parts of the Bible where it is made very clear that Christ or one of the apostles is speaking metaphorically or allegorically. You are absolutely correct!

    However, the Lutheran Church teaches that one should read and believe the Bible literally except when it is very clear in the scriptural text that the speaker is not speaking literally.

    So, tell me, how do you interpret Acts 2:38? "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins."

    There is no indication anywhere that Peter was being anything but literal.

    We are in agreement that in some parts of the Bible, God, or someone else, is speaking metaphorically or allegorically, but what about the rest of the Bible?

    a Lutheran Christian
    www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com
     
    #7 Wittenberger, Jul 22, 2012
  8. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Perhaps you meant to say, "most Baptists in your acquaintance"?

    I have been a Baptist all of my life and I don't know a any person who attends a Baptist church who believes the above list what you say we believe and I have never heard a Baptist preacher who believes that baptism saves, good deeds save, a "sinner's prayer" saves, or that the length of one salvation on this earth is relevant in anyway.

    And ..... the Bible is FULL of figurative language. Wisdom is personified as a woman. God is said to protect us with His feathers. There are idioms, similes, metaphors, and more. And these literary devices do not weaken the Truth, they bolster it.


     
    #8 Scarlett O., Jul 22, 2012
  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Yes they do. They take John 6 literally as well.
     
    #9 Walter, Jul 22, 2012
  10. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    Come on, now! Don't be so sensitive!

    You Baptists and evangelicals have been beating up on our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters throughout many of your comments.

    Toughen up! I didn't call you derogatory names. I just pointed out why I believe you are wrong and why I believe you need to return to the true Christian orthodox doctrines. Isn't that the purpose of this section of the Baptist Boards?

    I am still waiting for historical evidence that shows that anyone held the Baptist position on Baptism during the first few hundred years of Christianity after the death of Christ. Anything! A reading on a tombstone or catacomb:

    Here lies Joe
    Accepted Christ, Aug. 5, 278 AD
    Baptized to publically profess his faith: Sept 10, 278 AD

    Or a statement by one of the disciples of the Apostles: Polycarp, Justin Martyr?

    A statement by a church father: Clement? Augustine?

    I'll even be happy with a letter from a son to his Christian father:

    "Dear Dad, I am writing to let you know how thankful I am that I grew up in a Christian home, where I learned the true Gospel of Christ.

    I was recently attending a church service here in Antioch, Syria, and realized that I have never accepted Jesus as my Savior, I have never prayed the Sinner's Prayer, I have never given my life truly to Christ. I have never repented of all my sins in a one-time conversion experience.

    I have never been born again, even though I grew up in a Christian family!

    However, I am very happy to inform you that I accepted Christ as my Savior on June 10, 297 AD at 3:24PM during the altar call at First Baptist Church of Antioch, Syria.

    I plan to be baptized in a month to publically profess my faith in Christ.

    Can you and Mom make the trip down from Philippi to watch?

    Love,

    John of Philippi

    Please list any such evidence below. I am not trying to be sarcastic or insulting. My desire is to show Baptists and evangelicals the error of their doctrine and help them to return to the true catholic (small "c") faith. Your unscriptural doctrines were invented in the sixteenth century! There is no record that they existed during the first 1,000 years after Christ!
     
    #10 Wittenberger, Jul 22, 2012
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    It's not so much that we on the Baptist Board need to toughen up. I don't see anyone here acting wimpy.

    I fear it's you that needs to listen up.

    You have made the claim that we as Baptists believe that baptism saves, good works saves, the Sinner's Prayer saves, that no one who dies after believing and before being baptized can be saved, and that the altar call saves.

    No one here at the Baptist board believes any of this. I don't know any Baptists here or in my personal acquaintance who even practices a "sinner's prayer".

    You are asking us to defend a belief that we do not have. :laugh:
     
    #11 Scarlett O., Jul 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
  12. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I think you will find that some of the Baptists on this board admit that there is no evidence of their position in the Early Church. Some believe that the Catholic Church destroyed all historical evidence of the 'True Believers'. Others admit that there is evidence that baptismal regeneration was believed at the earliest of times but that is because it was one of the first 'heresies' to crop up. I have always wondered if it were thought to be a heresy and a controversy, why no evidence of any debate about it. There sure is evidence of heresies (Against Heresies-St. Iraneus) and I just don't understand why 'baptismal regeneration' was never challenged. Maybe it was and I just haven't heard about it?
     
    #12 Walter, Jul 22, 2012
  13. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Dear Witt: You should thank God that BB has some intelligent Baptists and not complain about it.
     
    #13 billwald, Jul 22, 2012
  14. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Why, Bill - that's the nicest thing you've ever said. :love2:

    :flower::flower:
     
    #14 Scarlett O., Jul 22, 2012
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Uh, you forgot to mention the most important thing that even the Lutherans say is the final authority -- the Bible.
     
    #15 Michael Wrenn, Jul 23, 2012
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How about looking to the scriptures for your answers, as both RCC/Lutheryn read it, but misunderstand it in making doctrines NOT based upon it!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2012
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    As interpreted by martin luthor!
     
    #17 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2012
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We hold to the plain and literal intending meaning for the texts, BUT must still take into account the genres, contex, and the hebrew/Greeks texts behind the English versions!
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2012
  19. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7 New Member

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    A certain evangelist (not me), in his later years when he had the time,
    did an exhaustive study on the Greek verb "pistus" (to believe)
    and he determined that it had a multiple of meanings ...
    to believe, to trust in, to follow, to obey (I think that was all).

    So, this gets back to the old problem of obedience, or face the consequences!

    Hey, the trick is to die 2 seconds later ... sorry, Lord, no time to be obedient.
    .
     
    #19 evangelist-7, Jul 23, 2012
  20. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    You are exactly right. The Bible is the FINAL authority...it is not the ONLY authority as many of the Baptists commenting on this thread seem to believe.
     
    #20 Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012
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