Why is DHS loading up on 450 million rounds of hollowpoints?

[LadyEagle]

Why is Department of Homeland Security loading up on 450 million rounds of hollow points - For the Homeland? Creepy, very creepy.


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-i...llion-new-rounds-of-ammo-2012-3#ixzz1qbkEfk8j

 

[Tom Bryant]

Why is Department of Homeland Security loading up on 450 million rounds of hollow points - For the Homeland? Creepy, very creepy.


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-i...llion-new-rounds-of-ammo-2012-3#ixzz1qbkEfk8j

Could be to keep them out of the hands of citizens who are stickpiling ammo for when the President outlaws ammunition because he can't outlaw the 2nd amendment???

 

[billwald]

So much for banning dumdum bullets. Should not this be covered by international treaty?

 

[mont974x4]

Hollow points are the best option for security. When I work armed security gigs I am required to carry hollow points. My boss is a deputy sheriff, as are most of the people I work with when I do security.The hollow point round maximizes stopping power when engaging a hostile target while minimizing the risks collateral damage. This is because of how a hollow point reacts when it encounters a target. All its energy is used on the target it hits first so their is less chance of a through and through which endangers the people beyond your target. Even a stray round that hits a wall or another object has less of a chance of hitting someone beyond it.

Hollow points are a safety device.

 

[HankD]

Why is Department of Homeland Security loading up on 450 million rounds of hollow points - For the Homeland? Creepy, very creepy.


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-i...llion-new-rounds-of-ammo-2012-3#ixzz1qbkEfk8j

That depends on who the targets are.

HankD

 

[seekingthetruth]

I believe we are seeing a shift in our government from "protecting" the citizens to "controlling" the citizens.

The Clintons and Obamas have made it clear for years that they believe that the government knows how to better control our lives than we do. Only they have the ability to make the correct decisions for us, we dont have the intelligence to do that for ourselves.

"It Takes a Village To Raise a Child"? No, it takes parents.

Do I need Michelle Obama to preasure McDonald's and Burger King to no longer put toys in kids meals? No, my six year old is lucky to get one fast food meal a month.

Do I need Obama, Pelosi and Reid to control my health insurance? No, I am perfectly capable of doing that myself.

This is not to even mention the civil rights we are losing everyday. We are fast becoming a police state. The liberals are using the media to create fear in the people. When people are afraid they are more willing to give up rights in exchange for so-called 'protection" by the government.

John

 

[Carolina Baptist]

Just a few questions that are not clear in the article.

How many rounds are used each year per member for training and qualifying?
How does this number compare to other law enforcement agencies?
Is all of the ammunition going to ICE or is it spread out over DHS? (The Coast Guard, a branch of the US military, is under DHS.)

 

[billwald]

Mont - then the military should universally adopt dum-dum bullets?

 

[matt wade]

Why is Department of Homeland Security loading up on 450 million rounds of hollow points - For the Homeland? Creepy, very creepy.


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-i...llion-new-rounds-of-ammo-2012-3#ixzz1qbkEfk8j

Maybe they are stock piling bullets so that if and when they need to shoot people they have them? Would you like the Department of Homeland Security to not have any bullets when they need to shoot a terrorist?

You people are too funny. If this happened under Bush, and liberals cried about it, you'd be all for the stockpiling.

 

[poncho]

The DHS has been at war with us (citizens) since the day it was created it's not surpising to see it gearing up for a big future battle they know is coming.

 

[NiteShift]

It is that time of year (fiscal year ending and new budget requests being made) when govt agencies will use it or lose it.

 

[Don]

It is that time of year (fiscal year ending and new budget requests being made) when govt agencies will use it or lose it.

Actually, we have a few months to go; government fiscal year ends 30 September.

My directorate submits funding requests quarterly; and we usually have end-of-year "fall-out" money that gets identified around August.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Mont - then the military should universally adopt dum-dum bullets?

Ah yes, the "dum dum" bullets that the media gets worked up about... Some journalists and activists with dramatic flair also like to call them "exploding bullets", giving the general public the idea that they are like tiny bombs going off. Given the state of reporting by people who claim to be informed, it's no wonder people don't understand the issues.

Mont is absolutely correct about hollow points. They are safer for everyone except for the person who is targeted. I carry hollow points in my 9mm precisely for this safety reason.

But military use of ammo and law enforcement use of ammo is very different because of the different objectives:

Now, the military does not use ammunition for the safe of safety or necessarily to kill. They use ammunition as a means to reach their strategic objectives.

When fighting against personnel who are not a target for elimination, the most effective thing you can do to weaken another fighting force is to wound their personnel, not kill them.

The dead need no immediate attention, nor resources. The wounded need both in abundance. A military force that is trying to wage war AND trying to take care of casualties at the same time needs enormous resources. The more overloaded the enemy force is during battle, the easier it is to reach your strategic objectives - and possibly save lives on both sides.

 

[marke]

Could be to keep them out of the hands of citizens who are stickpiling ammo for when the President outlaws ammunition because he can't outlaw the 2nd amendment???

That is an excellent possibility. Another alarming factor is the recent executive directive which dictates that in cases of national emergency (or, as was said in the directive, even in non-emergency situations) the President's czars have super-powers given them to take over large swaths of American business and private life as they see fit. Since the czars answer to the president, this possibility seems likely this year, especially if the president begins to lag in the polls in his reelection bid.

 

[carpro]

Some estimates say that about 100,000,000 rounds a year were being fired in the Iraq War at it's peak.

Why would DHS need enough ammo to sustain a full blown war for 4 years?

Only 185,000 DHS employees are issued weapons and hollowpoints are not usually used for target practice. They're used for killing.

 

[NiteShift]

Actually, we have a few months to go; government fiscal year ends 30 September.

My directorate submits funding requests quarterly; and we usually have end-of-year "fall-out" money that gets identified around August.

Well they are already putting up their budget requests. And I remember units that I was assigned to in the military receiving extra supplies/gadgets of all sorts around this time of year.

The contract itself is - "an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement...and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds."

 

[billwald]

This was mentioned last night on "Coast."

In fighting civilized countries a wounded soldier causes more disruption than clean kills because civilized soldiers don't leave wounded buddies behind and taking prisoners is also a disruption for the enemy.

Apparently Homeland Security has adopted the police saying that "dead people don't tell lies about you in court." They don't plan to take prisoners.

 

[Don]

Well they are already putting up their budget requests. And I remember units that I was assigned to in the military receiving extra supplies/gadgets of all sorts around this time of year.

The contract itself is - "an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement...and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds."

Agh. I missed the part about it being an IDIQ contract. I'm sick of contracts at this point in my career. Our directorate "contracts expert" has made me re-write a contract three times now...before she finally admitted that she's applying O&M rules to an R&D contract....

As for receipt of extra stuff around this time of the year, sounds about right. All the stuff that we put on order with year-end money, or when 1st-quarter money finally falls, would be arriving around this time frame.

 

[LadyEagle]

But military use of ammo and law enforcement use of ammo is very different because of the different objectives:

Yes, and so why does Homeland Security need 450 million of them - it certainly isn't to protect our borders. Could this large order be designed to curb ammo supply available to civilians? Perhaps they are anticipating civil unrest in light of recent events in Florida and the upcoming election?

 

[billwald]

Or is the intent to run up the price of lead? Since lead in bird shot has been banned and the do-gooders want lead banned in other hunting rounds . . . .