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Why? or Why Not?
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
??
I don't follow.
I am saying I also agree with the passages.
You posted them....right?
Who's on first?
37818
Well-Known Member
Romans 5:9, Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Yes. We are saved from God's wrath. God set Jesus forth as a Propitiation in His blood.
I am not sure your point. I know the word "wrath" is in the Bible.
I was talking about those who believe Jesus experienced God's wrath.
I know we, in Christ, do not experience God's wrath. The wicked are the ones storing up wrath for themselves for the Day of Wrath. We will not be among the wicked (we will be in His image, having laid aside the "old self", been made a new creation, etc.).
KenH
Well-Known Member
@JonC wrote: "Now, some may believe that God laying our iniquity on Jesus means it was taken from us snd put on Him....but that would mean Christ is unrighteous today as God lays Jesus' righteousness on us."
That is wrong reasoning. The sins of God's elect were imputed, charged, credited to Christ. Christ was not made a sinner. Christ has always been and will always be the spotless Son of God.
For he hath made him to be sin for us,.... Christ was made of a woman, took flesh of a sinful woman; though the flesh he took of her was not sinful, being sanctified by the Spirit of God, the former of Christ's human nature: however, he appeared "in the likeness of sinful flesh"; being attended with infirmities, the effects of sin, though sinless; and he was traduced by men as a sinner, and treated as such. Moreover, he was made a sacrifice for sin, in order to make expiation and atonement for it; so the Hebrew word חטאה signifies both sin and a sin offering; see Psalm 40:6 and so αμαρτια, Romans 8:3. But besides all this, he was made sin itself by imputation; the sins of all his people were transferred unto him, laid upon him, and placed to his account; he sustained their persons, and bore their sins; and having them upon him, and being chargeable with, and answerable for them, he was treated by the justice of God as if he had been not only a sinner, but a mass of sin; for to be made sin, is a stronger expression than to be made a sinner: but now that this may appear to be only by imputation, and that none may conclude from hence that he was really and actually a sinner, or in himself so, it is said he was "made sin"; he did not become sin, or a sinner, through any sinful act of his own, but through his Father's act of imputation, to which he agreed; for it was "he" that made him sin: it is not said that men made him sin; not but that they traduced him as a sinner, pretended they knew he was one, and arraigned him at Pilate's bar as such; nor is he said to make himself so, though he readily engaged to be the surety of his people, and voluntarily took upon him their sins, and gave himself an offering for them; but he, his Father, is said to make him sin; it was he that "laid", or "made to meet" on him, the iniquity of us all; it was he that made his soul an offering for sin, and delivered him up into the hands of justice, and to death, and that "for us", in "our" room and stead, to bear the punishment of sin, and make satisfaction and atonement for it; of which he was capable, and for which he was greatly qualified."
- excerpt from John Gill's commentary on 2 Corinthians 5:21
That is wrong reasoning. The sins of God's elect were imputed, charged, credited to Christ. Christ was not made a sinner. Christ has always been and will always be the spotless Son of God.
For he hath made him to be sin for us,.... Christ was made of a woman, took flesh of a sinful woman; though the flesh he took of her was not sinful, being sanctified by the Spirit of God, the former of Christ's human nature: however, he appeared "in the likeness of sinful flesh"; being attended with infirmities, the effects of sin, though sinless; and he was traduced by men as a sinner, and treated as such. Moreover, he was made a sacrifice for sin, in order to make expiation and atonement for it; so the Hebrew word חטאה signifies both sin and a sin offering; see Psalm 40:6 and so αμαρτια, Romans 8:3. But besides all this, he was made sin itself by imputation; the sins of all his people were transferred unto him, laid upon him, and placed to his account; he sustained their persons, and bore their sins; and having them upon him, and being chargeable with, and answerable for them, he was treated by the justice of God as if he had been not only a sinner, but a mass of sin; for to be made sin, is a stronger expression than to be made a sinner: but now that this may appear to be only by imputation, and that none may conclude from hence that he was really and actually a sinner, or in himself so, it is said he was "made sin"; he did not become sin, or a sinner, through any sinful act of his own, but through his Father's act of imputation, to which he agreed; for it was "he" that made him sin: it is not said that men made him sin; not but that they traduced him as a sinner, pretended they knew he was one, and arraigned him at Pilate's bar as such; nor is he said to make himself so, though he readily engaged to be the surety of his people, and voluntarily took upon him their sins, and gave himself an offering for them; but he, his Father, is said to make him sin; it was he that "laid", or "made to meet" on him, the iniquity of us all; it was he that made his soul an offering for sin, and delivered him up into the hands of justice, and to death, and that "for us", in "our" room and stead, to bear the punishment of sin, and make satisfaction and atonement for it; of which he was capable, and for which he was greatly qualified."
- excerpt from John Gill's commentary on 2 Corinthians 5:21