Why So Hard To Find A Bible Church?

No and no.

HankD

 

< Am I too demanding? >

Yep, probably. If you're looking for a perfect church you ain't gonna find it.

<Am I alone in this? >

I doubt it. I refused to go to any church between the ages of 15 and 21 because none anywhere really followed the Bible.

< ...some that did appear to be Bible based. However, these congregations quickly revealed themselves to be dens of anger and hostility. >

I think that's just a consequence of endeavoring to be serious about the Word of God. Reading this board you can see how 'hostile' people who do believe their Bibles can get when someone else doesn't understand a particular concept exactly the same way.

 

Rain,

My wife and I travel all over the USA, and have never found it difficult to find a Bible believing/practicing church.

1st: Pray about it, before you look.

2nd: Yellow pages are a way to get a sample of the direction of the church. If the have the Baptist name, claim to be Independent, and Fundemental, and even KJV, you have a good chance of finding a decent church.

3rd: Pray some more.

4th: Call the church and talk to the Pastor. Ask him what bible they use, what kind of music they listen to and sing, what the teens look like and are doing, and how do the people dress.

5th: Pray again!

We have rarely been disappointed using this method. This will also give you a cross section of what this church is all about.

Hope this is helpful.

[ July 23, 2002, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Justified ]

 

Yellow pages are a way to get a sample of the direction of the church. If the have the Baptist name, claim to be Independent, and Fundemental, and even KJV, you have a good chance of finding a decent church.

Call the church and talk to the Pastor. Ask him what bible they use, what kind of music they listen to and sing, what the teens look like and are doing, and how do the people dress

That doesn't sound bible-based, it's sounds like a whole lot of Legalism.

 

Grasshopper,

I usually don't respond to such imature replies, but in your case, your response sparked an interest to a question you have raised about yourself and your character.

Are you a young Christian that has not had a chance to study God's Word in several areas?

or

Are you a Christian that does not want to grow to experience the full blessings of the Lord?

To want to study God's Word or to grow in the Lord's ways, doesnot make one a legalist.

 

It is getting harder. Even in the IFB churches. I'm finding that more and more churches are depending on tradition over the Bible.

 

There are good churches out there. You just have to look. It is hard to find solidly Biblical churches. There are more and more of them in the SBC and reformed traditions, a few among Evang Free and PCA, but not much left anywhere else

 

I usually don't respond to such imature replies, but in your case, your response sparked an interest to a question you have raised about yourself and your character.

Well, I do so here goes. First of all, read those remarks again those are not bible-based but IFB based. Show me where the "kind" of music you are to use in worship is found in the bible. Thou shalt use only country gospel? Or Hymns? How long one's hair is to be? Where does it say "Use only the KJV"? Again bible-based or IFB based?

As for me I was in your camp for quite sometime. I had dozens of Jack Hyles, Curtis Hudson, RG Lee tapes. Even took the Sword Of The Lord. Then the more I studied the more I found the grace of God. I found I looked and acted more like the Pharasees than I did Christ. Passing judgement on people based on how they looked or dressed. Somehow that made me feel more spiritual. What a hypocrite. So if burr haircuts and forbiding women to wear pants is in your bible then go ahead, but as for me I prefer grace.

[ July 20, 2002, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Grasshopper ]

 

Grasshopper, thought so, you have a heart condition. I recommend 2 prayers before bed and see your Heavenly Physician in the morning.

 

Couldn't find them in your bible could you?

 

Grasshopper,

They're in my Bible, and I can give you all the references about clothing, music, actions, and separation from the world. BUT! You have had the truth already, by your own admissions and have rejected it.

Latterrain had started this thread for advise on finding a good church to go to. Not about separation and values and standards.

You have been on this board long enough to get a wealth of information, and probably have read it all, and still rejected it.

So I will not continue to throw the pearls...

 

They're in my Bible, and I can give you all the references about clothing, music, actions, and separation from the world. BUT! You have had the truth already, by your own admissions and have rejected it

Length of hair, kind of music? Still waiting for the "truth". You brush me off because those specifics cannot be found. He asked about Bible-believing churches, and then that list of conditions was posted which has nothing to do with bible belief.

As for once having the truth, I can only assume you mean from listening to that great "moral" man Jack Hyles. I don't think so.

These should help you:

Legalism
or
More legalism
and Jack Hyles wouldn't preach this

[ July 21, 2002, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Grasshopper ]

 

I found I looked and acted more like the Pharasees than I did Christ. Passing judgement on people based on how they looked or dressed. Somehow that made me feel more spiritual[Grasshopper]

"Well Grasshopper, this really pricked my heart & hit home; I think I'm guilty of doing this sometimes, 'tho I don't mean to be. I sometimes find myself really noticeing short-haired women(even tho'I used to be one) & women in pants(I used to wear them) & I tend to pass judgment. I've repented many times over this, because I do not want to be 'holier-than-thou'. I want folks to see things like meekness, humbleness, instead of a haughty attitude. Thank you for again reminding me of my own flaws as I needed to be made aware of this. May God give you a wonderful day.

 

I think sometimes we get the horse before the cart. A changed heart will often and should change an outward appearance, but an outward appearance will never change a heart. That only Christ can do.

 

Actually, I think you are confusing a couple of issues. Legalism is actually adding anything to Christ's work for salvation like circumcision, baptism, etc. (Acts 15:1)

What most of y'all are fussin' about are God's will and standards for His people. A short haired woman in pants or a long haired man can be saved people. Salvation is trading your righteousness for Christ's by faith in His finished work. After that, it is growing in grace and sanctification or finding the path to personal holiness if you please.

Hair is an issue discussed in the Scripture and the bottom line is men - short and women- long. What goes from there is how long is long and how short is short. If we were of the heart of our ancestors and truly did not have a clue men would have shaved themselves bald and women would have just grown their hair until it naturally stopped to be sure that they were in compliance. Now, we just want to argue and will shoot for how close can we go before we even think that we might be wrong and with an ignored conscience we might see bald women and men with hair to the floor.

Clothing is addressed and we know that women are to wear modest apparel. We just argue over what is the meaning of modest like what do you mean by "is"?

Both issues can be easily addressed and a fairly good concept attained by studying the history and grammer of the language. What kind of hair did men and women wear in Paul's day? What kind of women's clothing did they have? If you say that they all wore robes, then there were decent and indecent robes and it is a good possibility that the wrapping of the body versus draping of the body would have been considered immodest by that culture.

Is clothing important? Obviously, since there was a list given me in college of the 10 things common to all revivals and along with changes in the way leadership did things and increased prayer and church attendence there was a change in the way Christians dressed. This is true in EVERY revival and yet the folks before the revival would have felt that they were appropriately dressed and may have even pointed to the average attire of the culture and argued that they were no where near what they wore. That could not be argued in our culture as Christians tend to follow every fad that comes down the pike.

Music. - God is not the author of confusion or cacophony. If it is not decent and in order or balance the speed of the song is not important nor the instruments involved. A guitar is just a stringed instrument, but if it is a squawky screeching racket that makes normal people want to cover their ears or destroy it before the player does then that is not likely that music is godly. Much of the classical music had loud parts, but it is doubtful that it approached the ear drum destroying decibels of some modern music. We are so into our bodies nowadays why do we want to destroy the ear for the sake of music? Does it really lift up you spirit in stillness to God for worship if the singer is growling or screaming at you or sounding like they are trying to seduce someone? Again, doubtful. Does the group dress and look like they could just cross town and play with Nine Inch Nails or whoever is the popular seculer group of the day? Can the song play on MTV just as easyily as on Christian radio? Then the song is most likely not a good clear psalm, hymn or spiritual song as the World would not play if it was.

The problem with our Body is that is does not want to think anymore nor does it want to be disciplined, but wants to idulge itself in anything that feels good even if it borders or crosses over into sensuality. We are fat spoiled brats. Our weenified "scholars" who do not want ruffle any feathers or lose their position can easily explain away any passage that might call for some separation.

As to the Hyles thang. I did not always agree with Jack though my daughter graduated from there and indeed there is a professor there that thinks denim is unladylike. I canot see where he gets that. Also, some of the graduates from there are a bit on the nut case side who think they can gain the respect and "authority" that took Hyles decades to get in Hammond in a week or two at their first church. They end up destroying that church and often themselves if they fail to see their own errors and blame it on the congregation as being unspiritual. The congregation may well have been sick sheep with some goats but you have to learn to heal the sickness first and lead the sheep not drive them like cattle.

That does not mean that some of his standards were not appropriate. They may have been addressed in the wrong spirit or the appearance of a wrong spirit, but that does not make the issue wrong only the delivery.

I have found over the last 27 years that the folks who whine about standards the loudest usually have problems in many areas with authority including the Bible, Supervisors, Pastors, etc. Honest questions asked with a real desire to learn can usually be answered, but if someone does not want to be "tied down" or told what to do then it does not matter if the teacher has 100 Scriptures, 2,000 pages of historical fact and Jesus standing behind him with the thumbs up sign ya still couldn't learn them anything.

Will they go to Hell? No. Might they be missing many blessings? Yes. Will they be bummed when we stand at the Bema and see what their cries of their "rights" and "freedom" cost them? Yep. All you can do is try to preach the truth in love and live the best example you can live. After that, it is up to God.

So standards are not legalistic. Can folks abuse standards? Certainly. Should we just chunk everything out the window to avoid abuse? God forbid.

The Holy Spirit was sent to lead us, all of us, into ALL truth. If you really want to know you can find out. It may take diecernment and applications of principles to get that truth. God did not approach every issue with a Thou shalt and a Thous shalt not. That was for children being taught by a tutor. We are supposed to be mature children now and able to apply truth/principles to "new" situations. That is called wisdom.

Woe unto them who call evil good and good evil. Well, then if God says that we better know the difference then it stands to reason that He will give us the ability to know the difference regardless of what age or dispensation we are living in. Therefore seek truth and wisdom and you shall know. Just be prepared for surprises and that your pre-suppositions and subjective feelings may be off key.

Shalom!

 

Maverick,
I wish I could reach through this computer and shake your hand. That was very well said. I really enjoyed the spirit in which you said it.

Are you available for Revival Meetings?

God Bless You Brother,
Pastor Bob