Will we have free will in heaven?

[epistemaniac]

If God changes our wills when we are glorified so that we no longer want to sin, are our wills free?

It seems to me that the free willers will have have to say no, that God would be imposing Himself on the will of the person to make them not want to sin, for if they cannot sin if they really want to, then, they must not be free.

But, if the free willers want to say that it is perfectly fine for God to impose Himself on His children in heaven in such a way as to change their wills so that they no longer want to sin, and that they are still free (in the Libertarian sense), then I see no reason to think that God may not do exactly the same thing prior to glorification, to so change the will of some so that they not only have the ability to come to Him, they have the change of will to actually want to come to Him, and yet, they remain "free".

blessings

 

[webdog]

Without a sin nature, there is no choice (between sinning and not sinning) to sin. This has nothing to do with free will, and I don't believe if we have free will now, He will turn us into robots on the New Earth.

 

[timothy27]

I love how people equate no free will with robots. It is such a misrepresentaion!

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by webdog:
Without a sin nature, there is no choice (between sinning and not sinning) to sin. This has nothing to do with free will, and I don't believe if we have free will now, He will turn us into robots on the New Earth.

Did Adam have a sin nature before the fall?

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by whatever:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by webdog:
Without a sin nature, there is no choice (between sinning and not sinning) to sin. This has nothing to do with free will, and I don't believe if we have free will now, He will turn us into robots on the New Earth.

Did Adam have a sin nature before the fall? </font>[/QUOTE]No. Did he have free will? Yes. Did God tell him what to name the animals in the garden, or did he have the freedom to?

 

[timothy27]

Naming the animals in the garden is not the same as being able to come to God on your own.

 

[timothy27]

Your equating the freedom to make decisions about non-spritual matters, to decisions about spiritual ones. They are not the same.

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, all the Calvinist will become free-willers.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by whatever:
Did Adam have a sin nature before the fall?

No. Did he have free will? Yes. Did God tell him what to name the animals in the garden, or did he have the freedom to? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you think we will be able to choose to sin in Heaven?

 

[Rex77]

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Since we will be like him we will do as he would. and be willing to do the father's will.

Lu 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

 

[Marcia]

Why is everyone forgetting about being transformed into the image of Christ through sanctification, a process that begins here on earth?

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Rom 8.29

Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. 1 Cor 15.29

and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Col 3.10

God is not going to change our wills. We are in the process of sanctification, which will be completed in heaven and we will be like Christ - we will not have sin natures and will not even be able to conceive of sin, imo. All focus will be on praising God.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Yes, all the Calvinist will become free-willers.

Real Calvinists are already free-willers.

God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

 

[Brother Bob]

How could you have the mind of Christ and even think of sin. We will have a body like His most Glorious body.

 

[J.D.]

Good post Ken. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that presently the regenerate, possessing the Spirit within them, do not sin in their new nature (I John paraphrase he can not sin because His seed remains in him) but continue to sin in the old nature, which is centered in the FLESH. In the resurrection, our bodies are changed, and we are give a new flesh, not a sinful flesh, but a spritual, so that all desire for sin is removed.

And of course, all of it is the sovereign act of God upon the soul.

Am I off target?

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by epistemaniac:
If God changes our wills when we are glorified so that we no longer want to sin, are our wills free?

It seems to me that the free willers will have have to say no, that God would be imposing Himself on the will of the person to make them not want to sin, for if they cannot sin if they really want to, then, they must not be free.

But, if the free willers want to say that it is perfectly fine for God to impose Himself on His children in heaven in such a way as to change their wills so that they no longer want to sin, and that they are still free (in the Libertarian sense), then I see no reason to think that God may not do exactly the same thing prior to glorification, to so change the will of some so that they not only have the ability to come to Him, they have the change of will to actually want to come to Him, and yet, they remain "free".

blessings

Actually, your question is the basic question on which C/A disagree.

God allows the "Will of man" the choice between "Good/Evil", those wills (belief/unbelief) then become the basis for which God choses to save/condemn.

Under predestination, The only explanation for giving Adam a choice in the garden is a mean/mercyless/vindictive God, who loves to extract "Wrath" on helpless people, for his glory.

Is that the same God described in the scripture, no, this God loved the whole world and provided a means for the whole world to be saved, because he wasn't will for any to perish,

If God was "Truthful" when he said he wasn't willing for any to perish and Jesus died for all sins, hasn't God done all he can do to save the world, why isn't this plan of salvation complete and everyone saved???

God would be a lair if he failed to do even one thing that caused one person to perish, but he didn't,


God's plan is sufficient to save the whole world, except for that one ingredent God did not include in the plan that would have save everyone, that is "FAITH", and that is a Free will choice by Man, and it's the reason a choice exist.


Giving man a choice is God's way of sorting out those who of their own free will would chose the things of God, rather than the world.


People in heaven will have free will, because their will and God's will is the same, the reason for them being in heaven. (saved)

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by whatever:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by whatever:
Did Adam have a sin nature before the fall?

No. Did he have free will? Yes. Did God tell him what to name the animals in the garden, or did he have the freedom to? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you think we will be able to choose to sin in Heaven? </font>[/QUOTE]no. The "new creature" we became will be what we live by, the old will be gone.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
Actually, your question is the basic question on which C/A disagree.

God allows the "Will of man" the choice between "Good/Evil", those wills (belief/unbelief) then become the basis for which God choses to save/condemn.

If this is what you believe then why have you so consistently evaded answering my simple question concerning why one is saved while another is not? Here you have answered it. You believe that the believers are saved by their own good will... their own goodness appropriating Christ sacrifice to themselves.

That is not a system of grace... but it is an answer to my question.

Under predestination, The only explanation for giving Adam a choice in the garden is a mean/mercyless/vindictive God, who loves to extract "Wrath" on helpless people, for his glory.

No it isn't and having been corrected so many times it is patently dishonorable for you to say something of this nature.

Is that the same God described in the scripture, no, this God loved the whole world and provided a means for the whole world to be saved, because he wasn't will for any to perish,

Once again this has previously been rebutted. You are referencing interpretations made from taking scriptures out of context.

If God was "Truthful" when he said he wasn't willing for any to perish

He was... The matter of "truthfulness" bears against those who ignore the fact that these words were spoken "us-ward".

God would be a lair if he failed to do even one thing that caused one person to perish, but he didn't,

Correct. They did it themselves. But the opposite is true of those who are saved. He ultimately caused them to not perish by His own good will... not being dependent on theirs.

God's plan is sufficient to save the whole world, except for that one ingredent God did not include in the plan that would have save everyone, that is "FAITH", and that is a Free will choice by Man, and it's the reason a choice exist.

God did include that. When He grants man a new nature, the man will freely manifest saving faith in response to the gospel.

Giving man a choice is God's way of sorting out those who of their own free will would chose the things of God, rather than the world.

IOW's, separating the good people from the bad... thus the good are saved based on their meritorious goodness... right? Don't equivocate now.

 

[Scott J]

People in heaven will have free will, because their will and God's will is the same, the reason for them being in heaven. (saved)

Incredibly, you don't see God imparting His complete and total goodness to men as a violation of free will... But this is EXACTLY what I have been arguing to you for months concerning the source of the goodness that changes man's nature allowing him to have the same will as God concerning his own salvation.

I will parallel your own words and perhaps it will be more appealing to you: People who are given goodness by God (regeneration) have free will,[and] because their will and God's will is the same,[this is] the reason for them being in saved.

 

[saturneptune]

Regeneration is required by the grace of God because of man's total depravity. One of the things we lose when regenerated is arrogance. We will not have the free will to be arrogant in heaven as that quality will not exist there.

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by epistemaniac:
If God changes our wills when we are glorified so that we no longer want to sin, are our wills free?

I think you may be confused about the theological definition of "free will." "Free will" simply means that the will has been set free from the law of sin and death. Prior to our salvation the will was in bondage to the law of sin and death. Christ set us free from that bondage. So your question then is "are we saved in heaven?" (Free from the law of sin and death.) The obvious answer is "yes."