Sometime ago I was studying much about women in church, and I would like to quote here information that I had compiled and saved (cut and paste) for sometime.
Bound to make people break out in a sweat, but what do you say to it?
Here it is:
Recently, on another discussion board the verses in Ephesians came to light...
Eph 4:8-11
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(KJV)
Would you not assume that it would suggest that these gifts were given to “men”???
But look at the definitions for this Greek word “men”... (It is not the Greek word for only men.)
STRONG’s Definition:
444 anthropos (anth'-ro-pos);
from 435 and ops (the countenance; from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:
KJV-- certain, man.
THAYERS’ Definition:
444 anthropos-
1) a human being, whether male or female
a) generically, to include all human individuals
b) to distinguish man from beings of a different race or order
1) used of animals and plants
2) used of from God and Christ
3) used of the angels
c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
into a mistake or prompted to sin
d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt
and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
Would that not IN FACT support the role of women in the Ministry??? Hence, my question.
The scriptures that we are discussing are:
1 Cor 14:34-36
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
(KJV)
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(KJV)
What happened to me was that if you take verse 1 Cor 14:34 “literally as translated”, it conflicts with the Bible. Then, I noticed that each church divides that verse or interprets it the way they feel like it; basically how much a woman can participate in church. When you take it literally (just the way it is written) a woman cannot even pray in church. This of course opposes other Scripture where we are to pray without ceasing. I was thoroughly confused as I looked at many translations and discovered that most were translated the same way. (Most commentators bypass it all together or if they do mention it, it is pretty vague or generic.)
Did this mean that women should not go to church, I wondered? What are women doing in church if they cannot pray out loud or sing or prophecy or have a Word of Knowledge, etc. etc. There are many churches, I believe, that will not let a woman pass out communion and a host of other things, but I ask you, where is the Biblical support for that?
So, I went to the Greek manuscripts, and this is what I came up with after much study and reading on this topic:
This is my own translation:
1 Cor 14:34 Let your wives be in quietness in the assemblies, for it is not permitted for them to chatter, but let them be in subjection, as the law also says.
1 Cor 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for a wife to chatter in the assembly.
(Another picture of marriage representing the Christ and the Bride of Christ, silent before God, and asking God privately for revelation.)
1 Tim 2:11 Let a wife learn in quietness with all subjection.
1 Tim 2:12 But I do not permit a wife to teach-as ruling or lording over her husband nor with her own words kills her husband but to be in quietness.
(A picture of the Bride of Christ and their Husband, Jesus)
Regarding the word “speak” in 1 Cor 14:34…in the Greek it is 2980 laleo: to talk, utter words, emit a sound, speak, use tongue, utter articulate sounds, to tell, declare one’s mind, disclose one’s thoughts (an extended or random harangue (to address in) a noisy or scolding speech---idle chatter, talk idly)
Here is the important note about the word “teach” in 1 Tim 2:12: Strong’s #1321 didasko 1) to teach, instruct by word of mouth: what is meant in this verse is teaching that is lording over her husband. Very important note—this Greek word “teach” is not 1317, 1318, 1319, 1320, 1322 --- various other words for “teach” in the Greek. I would advise checking them out and comparing the various definitions for “teach”.
Also, regarding usurp authority --- that is #831 authenteo 1) one who with his own hands kills another or himself 2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic 3) an absolute master 4) to govern, to exercise dominion over one.
I believe these Scriptures are dealing with husbands and wives because they are a picture of Jesus Christ, ever Faithful (Our Lover), and His Bride, who Love and Respect HIM. I believe marriage should be a replica of this.
END OF QUOTATIONS
Please do not get worked up, but I think this might help when wondering why women and men are discussing this topic in the first place.
