Worship Leader

I say ultimately the pastor is responsible. But getting down to it, the pastor, music director, choir, accompanists, soloists, etc - are all worship leaders.

 

I agree with TaterTot that the pastor is the ultimate worship leader.

I am not really sure about this role of "worship leader" though. Still working it through. Do I need someone to direct my personal worship in a service? Don't know. I know a song director helps keep the music together and orderly.

 

I think it's just a matter of what title to give the person that leads music and coordinates many parts of the worship service. It's hard to come up with an appropriate title for all that, but whatever it is, it's pretty important. But the overall responsibility is the pastor's.

 

I believe that God gave each of us a talent and a role to play in service. A worship leader normally has a calling on his or her life to do just that, lead in worship and at times it may be the pastor but not always.

 

If you use that terminology, then you haven't worshiped with a good one.

 

Neither the modern pastor role nor the music leader role are found in scripture. biblical churches had a plurality of elders/overseers in the first century, and not one pastor.

There is no mention of a 'worship leader' in the New Testament. Since the words most often translated worship, refer to bowing one's head down to the ground, it makes sense that the Bible wouldn't mention a special office of worship leader.

In the early church, individual members of the church could sing solos to the whole church as we see in I Corinthians 14:26. This may be the format Paul had in mind when he said to speak to yoruselves in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

If we do have congregational singing, id on't see anything wrong with someone helping keep everyone in time, but we shouldn't exalt that person to some kind of extra-biblical office, or seee them as a mediator between God and man, ushering people into the presence of God.

 

I disagree, I've seen where there are certain people who have a gift to do such things. Some people just can't do it well and don't have a love or heart for it, others can easily lead a worship service in a powerful way THROUGH GOD.

 

The modern pastor role as a leader of the people, overseer of the church, and preacher of God's word is the NT model. The music leader or worship leader fits a NT church necessity. It is not a special office, since there are only two NT church offices (pastor and deacon). It is a role in the church that is necessary to be filled.

I don't think anyone views the worship leader as an exalted extra biblical office or as a mediator between God and man. His job is to lead the people in worship.

 

Over all I see the pastor as the leader in worship even with a worship leader. The pastor that does it all himself isn't training up his congregation. A worship leader is an extension of the pastor.

A good worship leader works along side the pastor to enhance the sermon message. He oversees the planning and coordinating of the service and allows the pastor more time to study and pray.

Rob

 

hmm perhaps, but our worship leader does it a little different. we have a praise band so they work side by side while the pastor does what he needs.

 

The Pastor is to be the leader of Worship. Worship Leader for a song leader implies Worship is primarily singing and music. Worship involves Prayer, Reading of the Word of God in Church, Unison or Responsive Reading of a Creed or Confession of Faith, Singing, Preaching of the Word. The great Danger in many churches to refer to the music director as the Worship leader is to imply that we are only worshipping when we are singing.

 

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The modern pastor role as a leader of the people, overseer of the church, and preacher of God's word is the NT model. The music leader or worship leader fits a NT church necessity. It is not a special office, since there are only two NT church offices (pastor and deacon). It is a role in the church that is necessary to be filled.**


I suppose this depends on what you mean by 'office.' There are three (possibly four) ministries in the New Testament associated with the laying on of hands: apostle (possibly evangelist), elder/overseer, and deacon.

Of those, the modern 'pastor' is most closely related historically to the elder/overseer. For most of history, the clergyman was called an 'elder' or a derivative thereof. The English word 'priest' comes from the Greek for 'elder' but got corrupted by being used to refer to OT Aaronic descendants and took on the connotation of referring to mediators between God and men. New Testament elders correspond with Old Testmaent elders, rather than with the Aaronic priesthood.

The elders of the church were appointed to care for the flock. They were charged to pastor the flock of God and were called bishops or overseers.

Modern concepts of 'pastor' often differ from the Biblical concept of elders. Here are some ways they differ:

1. Elders in the New Testament were generally raised up from within the congregation. Modern pastors are often career clergymen who may move to another congregation if they get a better offer-- not always, but it happens.

2. Biblical elders are forbidden from pastoring 'for filthy lucre. The church has a duty to provide for those elders who labor in the body of Christ, but Paul also exhorted elders to follow his example of supporting himself. This is very different from the salaried pastor. the mdoern system is open to abuse by hirelings.

3. Many modern pastors are not Biblically qualified, or aren't really examined as to whether they live up to the requirements for overseers (e.g. rule one's house well.) Instead, they can claim a 'call to preach' or else show seminary degrees and get a job that way. Not everyone seminary educated or caled to preach is Biblically qualified to be an overseer.

4. 'Elder' means older man. I Peter 5 and I Timothy 5:1 imply that elders are older men.

5. Overseers are to be apt to teach, but that doesn't mean they should be the only teachers. The Bible teaches us to have meetings in which regular believers take turns using their gifts in the same meeting. We see this in I Corinthians 14:26, and in that one single verse in scripture used to tell people to goto church--Hebrews 10:25 (see also v. 10:24.)


I can understand wy some would see the Ephesians 4:11 pastor and teacher role to be the same as a church overseer, but I don't see this as conclusive. There may be some who are _gifted_ pastor adn teach who aren't qualified to be overseers-- for example the young novice in the faith who is pastorally gifted who starts discipling others, but who is not biblically qualified due to lack of experience running a household and due to being a novice.

Ephesians 4:11 lists no duties or responsiblities for a 'pastor.' It doesn't say that this is an 'office' in any way other than the way prophet or evangelist is an office.

 

I think the NT elder is completely and wholly different than anything in teh NT. The church is a completely different organism.

This is true. It is somewhat problemmatic, but not necessarily unbiblical. The NT were completely different and we can't help but wonder how much of that was cultural.

I don't think it is that different than a salaried pastor. Paul make it very clear that those who preach of hte gospel are to live of the gospel. Therefore, there is a clear NT mandate for "salaried pastors." There is the possibility for abuse, but in that case, we need to deal with teh abuse, not the biblical teaching.

Problemmatic for sure ... but again, not a reason to deny the biblical role of an elder.

The idea in "elder" is not solely age. It is maturity. That is why Timothy is told to not let people despise his youth. He was qualified to be an elder, even though in his culture, he was considered "young."

It is true that there are many teachers. To say that the biblical pattern is that they take turns in the same meeting is stretching the point. We often have three or four people teaching all at the same time. We just do it in different rooms. But again, the fact that many should be teachers does not mean that we should change the biblical idea of "elder" to fit something else.

I think everything you have said is true to some degree, but I don't think it compromises what I have about pastoring.

Nor does it have much to do with worship leaders so perhaps we should get back to that topic because we get run off this board for hijacking ....

 

I've started another thread about whether the modern pastorate is Biblical,so as not to hijack this thread. I intend to respond to your post there.