Would You Agree that Prayer "Most Powerful" weapon We have As Believers?

[JesusFan]

While in pentacostal days, did read EM Bounds/Andrew Murrey...

Did NOT agree with all things they said, did agree that prayer most powerful weapon we have, and we in church have sorely neglected that, to our peril!

Well? Could that be a big reason american church "getting run over' by secular society?

 

[mandym]

No I do not agree. The Word of God is.


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[Amy.G]

According to Paul, we have several weapons available and are to use all of them.

Ephesians 6:13-18 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[JesusFan]

No I do not agree. The Word of God is.

is prayer though the means/way to acess the power and provisions of God?

 

[Amy.G]

is prayer though the means/way to acess the power and provisions of God?

It's not just about prayer. Prayer is ineffective if your heart is not right with God.

 

[JesusFan]

It's not just about prayer. Prayer is ineffective if your heart is not right with God.

Correct!

Just was asking if the modern church really watered down and weak due to perhaps 'forgetting" that only the church thay stays praying on its knees gets empowered by God to move forward?

 

[mandym]

is prayer though the means/way to acess[sic] the power and provisions of God?

Your original question was "is prayer the most powerful weapon we have?"

Scripture never indicates such.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Jesus was in right relationship with God. His prayer time was communication and fellowship with the Father. We have the same opportunity in our quiet place. Most pray for needs or out of desperation. Prayer is simply talking to God and He talks back.

 

[JesusFan]

Your original question was "is prayer the most powerful weapon we have?"

Scripture never indicates such.

probably should have phrased it as:

is prayer, or lack of it in modern Church, a big reason why the Church is weak spiritually, and having culture corrupting it?

 

[mandym]

probably should have phrased it as:

is prayer, or lack of it in modern Church, a big reason why the Church is weak spiritually, and having culture corrupting it?

the true problem is a lack of discipleship in the church as well as an anything goes mentality. The church has lost its fear of God. Lack of prayer is only a symptom.

 

[JesusFan]

the true problem is a lack of discipleship in the church as well as an anything goes mentality. The church has lost its fear of God. Lack of prayer is only a symptom.

Have you read the works of either EM Bounds or Andrew Murrey?

What do you think of them?

 

[Tom Butler]

I'm uncomfortable describing prayer as a tool or a weapon, since it subtly suggests that we can order God around. In fact, this is what the Word-Faith folks teach.

We have to be careful with the cliches we tend to use regarding prayer. Such as "prayer changes things." Actually, prayer changes us. It brings us to an acknowledgement that we are totally dependent on God; and that it is his decision whether to grant our prayer requests.

That said, when I'm sick I want my wife praying for me. God hears her. I want my church praying for me.

When we're preparing for revival services, we need to do it on our knees.

God hears and answers prayer. But not always the way we want. Sometimes, he answers Yes. Sometimes he answers No. Sometimes he answers Not Now.

We just need to be careful about how we describe prayer. Prayer is not a powerful tool. It is an expression of our weakness and an acknowledgement of God's power.

 

[JesusFan]

I'm uncomfortable describing prayer as a tool or a weapon, since it subtly suggests that we can order God around. In fact, this is what the Word-Faith folks teach.

We have to be careful with the cliches we tend to use regarding prayer. Such as "prayer changes things." Actually, prayer changes us. It brings us to an acknowledgement that we are totally dependent on God; and that it is his decision whether to grant our prayer requests.

That said, when I'm sick I want my wife praying for me. God hears her. I want my church praying for me.

When we're preparing for revival services, we need to do it on our knees.

God hears and answers prayer. But not always the way we want. Sometimes, he answers Yes. Sometimes he answers No. Sometimes he answers Not Now.

We just need to be careful about how we describe prayer. Prayer is not a powerful tool. It is an expression of our weakness and an acknowledgement of God's power.

agreed!
Prayer has NO intrinsic power in and of itself, NO power in our spoken words to affect reality, as WoF teaches...

Just was thinking more like James, as the church today sees liitle happen, because we fail in both an individual/corporate basis to ask God to move to save souls, change culture, do transformation in Christians etc?

 

[The Biblicist]

agreed!
Prayer has NO intrinsic power in and of itself, NO power in our spoken words to affect reality, as WoF teaches...

Just was thinking more like James, as the church today sees liitle happen, because we fail in both an individual/corporate basis to ask God to move to save souls, change culture, do transformation in Christians etc?

Moreover, all subjective experiences (prayer, feelings, etc.) are to be subjective to the objective Word of God (Isa. 8:20) as the final authority in regard to their spiritual source, interpretation and beleif.

The Charismatic Movement reverses this order and makes the Word of God subjective to their experiences and experiential feelings that guide their interpretations of scripture rather than sound Biblical hermeneutics.

 

[JesusFan]

Moreover, all subjective experiences (prayer, feelings, etc.) are to be subjective to the objective Word of God (Isa. 8:20) as the final authority in regard to their spiritual source, interpretation and beleif.

The Charismatic Movement reverses this order and makes the Word of God subjective to their experiences and experiential feelings that guide their interpretations of scripture rather than sound Biblical hermeneutics.

Think that the biggest 'problem" that I have encountered in Baptist circles regarding this entire area of Charasmatics is that they are NOT all in same theological camp, as some are pretty much strong in blical doctrines, just would affirm that Spiritual Gifts did not cease, would see Dr Wayne Grude,/Dr gorden Fee etc as being examples in that

Classical ones in Assemblies of God camp would also affirm strong biblical doctrine/authoroty, just from Arminian viewpoints...

So i am identified as being in same camp regarding this as say Dr wayne Grudem, and think that is OK to freely discuss our disagreements, same with say an Assemblies of God theologian like a Dr rodney Williams, but would say those holding to the hagins/Copelands/Hinns/price etc drefinitly OUT of orthodoxy, and gone into heresays and false doctrines/teachers!

 

[12strings]

1. Jesus is the most powerful weaopon we have. In saying this, I don't mean we can wield him like sword, but rather that we are the defensless villagers, and our most powerful weopon is the group of seven samurai who are defending us. (Seven Samurai, great Japanese movie from about 50 years ago)

2. I would say another often overlooked problem in our churches is that we all hide our sin, and so when it comes out, it ruins marraiges and people leave the church, never to be seen again.