Would you have taken me in?

In another tread one said something to the effect that, “if you walked into my church spouting of that kind of thing I would have personally escorted you out.” Let me put this in regards to a person thinking they knew God but were living like the Devil.

I partially agree with that there may be an occasion to do such a thing but wonder where the line should be drawn and how tolerant the church should be on one that is searching. Looking at my own life when I was in my late teens to mid-twenties, if you would have asked me if I believed in God I would have told you yes I did, yet I didn’t live my life for Him nor did I even know how He truly wanted me to live my life.

I knew/thought that if I went to a church they would see the way I was living and would tell me either I didn’t believe in God or I was going to Hell anyway because of how I was living and if anything start dictating to me how I should live.

Knowing myself I also knew that if someone tried to tell me I didn’t believe in God there was going to be trouble and if someone were to escort me out at that time it had better been handled delicately and dare not put their hands on me for I may have wiped the floor with that person and probably several others in the congregation if they wanted a piece of it, regardless it would have been ugly. Though because of my perceived respect for God and His church and its people at that time, and fear of God, and not knowing what to expect should I go while I was still messing up I just stayed away from it, not wanting to deal with it all, though I dreamed of walking in one and being warmly greeted and loved.

Now regarding this following statement which I have taken out of context:

“I cannot imagine meeting at church with a congregation that was full of people who do the things you say they can do and all of you be of one mind and one accord and worship God. There are a lot of groups like that but I don't call them churches.”

Would you be patient with them telling you they believed in God while they lived like the Devil? Can you imagine meeting at a church that would allow itself to be full of them or possibly could there be a balance but that it should not get out of hand?

If your church allowed people that were obviously sinning, (not even pretending or overly presenting themselves to be someone they weren’t and probably incapable of fooling anyone who could see) into “your” church or would you consider it a group that did no longer qualified as a church?

Could your church recognize and help with the needs of a stubborn, messing up, but yet searching person who didn’t understand these church things given that person was not there to start trouble but sincerely wanting to know God?

 

Thanks Brother Bob, and I hope you’re not offended by my using your statements to form a scenario to build upon. They helped me to make my point and ask the questions so I did use them along with stating they were taken out of context.

I have seen you and others state on a several occasions about things you would and would not allow in your church. If you remember I once asked you what you would do in a case with a member.

I‘m interested to hear how far different people would go in allowing someone who is stubborn, and strong headed, yet searching, to exist with them in a church.

What if per say I had brought my girlfriend who was hanging on me and really wasn’t dressed appropriately for the high standards of that church? And what if a couple weeks later I brought a different one, lol? Or what if I had a slip of the tongue (foul language) just outside the door or came in hung over and with battle scares. Would you come down on me or just delicately point me to the truth of the blessings of a godly life? Remember I would have not tolerated someone getting in my face, especially a bully type and would be quick to let one know, while not intending to cause trouble, I still needed a delicate touch or I’d have…never mind…:saint: machismo aside would you have been patient with me?

What would you do? Would you still have made me feel welcome or thought we need to clean house here because he’s obviously not saved and is too disruptive to the membership by his lifestyle. (of course the extreme of a serial killer would not be logical and hopefully that person would be in jail anyway)

With love and warmth I could have been taken in but with judging and hardness it would have been a catastrophe so how far would you go to accommodate me seeing where I was at and who I was?

How far should a Christian’s responsibility go if they truly understand the situation in trying to deal with it?

 

How do you know Bob, why doubt, there’s no new thing under the sun. Anyway, all I’m saying is simple respect of my thoughts and belief wouldn’t have been an option back then, and if one was to escort me out because I confessed a sin along with belief in God unfortunately he’d been best to not get in too big a hurry. I too thank God for changing my heart, in my case I must say that my wife who’s major in college was social rehabilitation helped by showing me a complete opposite view of handling things, a gift from God.

I’m much newer in my walk with the Lord than you and having lived a hard life myself and often thinking of where I came from and where I am now I wonder why I didn’t start sooner. Well one definite factor would be hearing a preacher talk about booting people out of “his” church while judging their sins and salvation is the kind of thing I didn’t want to have to step in a church and deal with. You seem to be more worried about one teaching it’s okay to sin but the truth is it’s God who changes the heart and through faith of God’s love and conviction of price paid the HS will do the work, He is capable of doing so without a schoolmaster.

I am glad you would have worked with me and there are many ways I could have been dealt with but having to agree with everything you said was a rule for salvation would have been met with argument. On the other hand knowledge of God’s Word alone would have done the job while using my own God given mind and heart to reason righteousness.

If I was ever a pastor of a church, and I do hope to a start formal education soon, raying: , you would be hard pressed to even find the appearance that I would be un-accepting of a sinner. Jesus talked about going out and finding, then rejoicing more over that one sheep that had gone astray than the other 99 in the pasture and if one stepped into my church my greatest priority is to keep him in and feed him while letting God do the work and judging.

I’m not sure if you would have taken me in or put me to the test at this point.

 

When I walk in the door saying I believe in God, needing help, what is the first thing I should be worried about that I need to live by, church membership rules? I think there are too much emphases being put on membership rules.

Huh??? I don’t know what to say about this Bob, but it reminds me of the Pharisees and scribes.

I wouldn’t have come in to that church to cause trouble though. True a man is responsible for how he lives and with a lack of knowledge and wisdom he isn’t going to do a very good work in/for Christ. “cut themselves off from the flock” ? I’m not sure I would have the time to do so, not even having the chance to discern the right thing to do. Is first priority to obey church rules or Church rules?

Amen, but would the new believer have the knowledge and understanding to leave in peace or would the devil win out first by devising rules of the church and sending him away angry at it?

Not at all, I’m saying there is a great need for patience and understanding to take precedence over making church rules. If a new believer was being disruptive solely based of the judgment of his sins as the problem, then the problem is more with the judgment than with the sinner. And, no, he shouldn’t be left alone, he is there to hear the Word, so preach it, this is, His words and judgment, not your own.

I am a firm believer in the blessings of being humble before the Lord. The demon possessed dudes acted in that way and said to Jesus what do you have to do with us, you come to punish us already, but Jesus cast the evil away from them.

I did not judge you; I came asking questions even changing the scenario. As for the serial killer thing:

In theory, rather I should say truth, a serial killer could be saved. I know you don’t like hearing that and neither do I. Would I think that he was living in Christ? Not by the looks of it but I can’t see his heart, and I know two things about it:

1) I am not to judge him and what I judge him with will be upon me, Now, I don’t want it upon me that I believe that there is anything that I can do or not do (no matter what) to save myself, because I BELIEVE that Jesus paid the price for ALL my sins. So if I believe there is even one sin that I can be held responsible for, that Jesus didn’t pay for, on judgment day which one is it??? because that was my judgment.

2) Even the Devil believes but he is not born again from above, not sanctified, not doing the works of Christ, Jesus is the ONLY way and the Devil doesn’t have faith in that (couldn’t) and it is love of His Truth in faith that saves you, sets you free, “If the Son therefore shall set you free, you are free indeed.” I will live in belief of that doctrine, I will not be a servant to sin, the Lord is my Master, He paid the price and overcame sin, I will be judged by Him, not sin of this world, that’s it faith + nothing. That enough!

 

That’s your privilege LeBuick, it’s your church, so you go right on ahead. :thumbs: