Wrench In Prosecution’s Knee-On-Neck Narrative

[Aaron]

Use-Of-Force Expert, State Witness Throws Wrench In Prosecution’s Knee-On-Neck Narrative

During the trial of former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin, a witness called by the prosecution told the court that numerous photos shown of the arrest and detainment of George Floyd show Chauvin’s knee and leg on Floyd’s back and between shoulder blades, as opposed to his neck.

Lt. Johnny Mercil, who was in charge of use-of-force training at the time of Floyd’s arrest, confirmed to defense attorney Eric Nelson this week that Chauvin, at least in portions of the arrest shown, was detaining Floyd by using what’s called a “prone hold,” which is permitted.

Attorney Andrew Branca for Law of Self Defense, writing at Legal Insurrection, reported on Nelson’s questioning of Mercil with regard to Chauvin’s knee and leg placement (note: summarized and not exact transcript):

It was at this point that Nelson showed Mercil a series of photographs captured from the body worn camera of Officer Lane, and showing Chauvin’s knee on Floyd from the angle down Floyd’s proned body.

Photo 1: (Nelson: ) Where’s Chauvin’s leg in this image? On Floyd’s neck? Or on his shoulder blades and back. Mercil: Shoulder blades and back.

(Nelson: ) And in photo 2? (Mercil) Same. (Nelson) Photo 3? (Mercil) Same. (Nelson) Photo 4? (Mercil) Same.

“This, of course, fundamentally undercuts the prosecution’s narrative of guilt that it was Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck that killed Floyd,” argued Branca.

The lawyer noted that Mercil also acknowledged that there are “circumstances like those already discussed where [it] would be appropriate to maintain presence of leg across shoulder blades and back in order to ensure control of the suspect” — even for as long as ten minutes.

“In other words, the use of the restraint can be justified not only to compel compliance of the suspect in the first place, but to ensure that the suspect maintains compliance moving forward—especially given the experience and concern that unconscious suspects can revive and be even more violent than they were prior, even if that restraint is being held in place for as long as 10 minutes,” Branca said. “And that’s not just for the safety of the officer, but also for the officer’s partners, for bystanders, and even for the suspect himself.”​

 

[just-want-peace]

I just hope no one is actually contemplating that this will negate any rioting after the trial - regardless of the verdict!!!

 

[Aaron]

I just hope no one is actually contemplating that this will negate any rioting after the trial - regardless of the verdict!!!

Of course not. The rioting isn't about justice. They want an acquittal.

 

[atpollard]

While I believe the charges are an overreach, I cannot say that "nothing is wrong" when a man dies pinned to the ground as police stand by and do nothing. What I saw showed a deficit of basic humanity. Policies and procedures need to change, and it is sad if it requires a "policy" to generate the empathy to comfort a dying man.

If you were anyone on that video, would you point to it with pride at how you performed your job that day?

 

[Yeshua1]

While I believe the charges are an overreach, I cannot say that "nothing is wrong" when a man dies pinned to the ground as police stand by and do nothing. What I saw showed a deficit of basic humanity. Policies and procedures need to change, and it is sad if it requires a "policy" to generate the empathy to comfort a dying man.

If you were anyone on that video, would you point to it with pride at how you performed your job that day?

I think that he was overcharged, but was guilty of something!

 

[atpollard]

I think that he was overcharged, but was guilty of something!

He may be guilty of following protocol and insensitivity. That might make him a jerk, but being a jerk is not a crime. It is like the people that gather to watch a person jump to their death ... it is disgusting, but not illegal.

He might even just be a victim of his training. He did what he was trained to do. He may have been focused more on the mob and was trying to get home alive at the end of his shift.

That's the thing ... I really don't have all the facts. That's why there is a JURY to hear all about everything. So far, it is only one side that has presented their side. We know WHAT happened on the video. We are only speculating on WHY and everything that led up to that moment.

George Floyd was probably going to die no matter what anyone did. Who knows if immediate shots of Narcan could have saved him (which those officers did not have as far as I know). Who knows if a faster ambulance response might have made a difference.

It just seems to me that dying handcuffed with his face pressed to the pavement seems unnecessary and wrong. That is the part that lacks basic humanity.

 

[Scott Downey]

Before you start being critical of police, understand they are the defense against people running around like beasts doing evil things. Romans 13 says they don't bear a sword in vain. People who want the police gone or turned into social workers despise authority, people rage and go out of control. So it is either the police or vigilante justice as the alternative, or a Mad Max world.

 

[percho]

He may be guilty of following protocol and insensitivity. That might make him a jerk, but being a jerk is not a crime. It is like the people that gather to watch a person jump to their death ... it is disgusting, but not illegal.

He might even just be a victim of his training. He did what he was trained to do. He may have been focused more on the mob and was trying to get home alive at the end of his shift.

That's the thing ... I really don't have all the facts. That's why there is a JURY to hear all about everything. So far, it is only one side that has presented their side. We know WHAT happened on the video. We are only speculating on WHY and everything that led up to that moment.

George Floyd was probably going to die no matter what anyone did. Who knows if immediate shots of Narcan could have saved him (which those officers did not have as far as I know). Who knows if a faster ambulance response might have made a difference.

It just seems to me that dying handcuffed with his face pressed to the pavement seems unnecessary and wrong. That is the part that lacks basic humanity.

I agree. IMHO you probably have to be a jerk to be a cop in the first place. Don't think I could have ever been one. I'm just not made with the kind of attitude I think it probably takes to be one.

I do not think I could support, as a cop, the government mandates that are currently in place, of which I believe to deny basic human rights.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree. IMHO you probably have to be a jerk to be a cop in the first place. Don't think I could have ever been one. I'm just not made with the kind of attitude I think it probably takes to be one.

I do not think I could support, as a cop, the government mandates that are currently in place, of which I believe to deny basic human rights.

Police are the main frontline of the criminal justice system. Very necessary to restrain evil people.
If there is no restraint the people will rage. Look how when no restraint was exercised against BLM, ANTIFA, how cities were looted, ransacked, burned, and people were attacked and beaten and some killed.
You even see the give up attitude on this forum where people say there will be uncontrolled rioting, pillaging, burning and looting, especially if the evil unruly mobs dont get their idea of justice in this Chauvin case. They say just give up and let all hell break loose, better than gunning such people down by the military in the streets.
Sorry but with no law and order, the nation can not survive as it is.

The prediction is the destruction of the western nations because IMO, it's people are evil and have an elitist mindset, unable to endure hardships. Everything will fall apart.
America’s Most Secret Intelligence Agency, Deagel, Forecasts Depopulation of the World From COVID-19 Crisis & Great Reset (humansarefree.com)

 

[Yeshua1]

He may be guilty of following protocol and insensitivity. That might make him a jerk, but being a jerk is not a crime. It is like the people that gather to watch a person jump to their death ... it is disgusting, but not illegal.

He might even just be a victim of his training. He did what he was trained to do. He may have been focused more on the mob and was trying to get home alive at the end of his shift.

That's the thing ... I really don't have all the facts. That's why there is a JURY to hear all about everything. So far, it is only one side that has presented their side. We know WHAT happened on the video. We are only speculating on WHY and everything that led up to that moment.

George Floyd was probably going to die no matter what anyone did. Who knows if immediate shots of Narcan could have saved him (which those officers did not have as far as I know). Who knows if a faster ambulance response might have made a difference.

It just seems to me that dying handcuffed with his face pressed to the pavement seems unnecessary and wrong. That is the part that lacks basic humanity.

I blame those other cops standing right there , who should have stepped in much earlier!

 

[atpollard]

Before you start being critical of police, understand they are the defense against people running around like beasts doing evil things. Romans 13 says they don't bear a sword in vain. People who want the police gone or turned into social workers despise authority, people rage and go out of control. So it is either the police or vigilante justice as the alternative, or a Mad Max world.

There should be room for something between Mad Max and what we saw in that video. A dog hit by a car and dying in the street would have been treated with more compassion than we saw Mr Floyd die with. I think that deserves a little criticism.

 

[atpollard]

I do not think I could support, as a cop, the government mandates that are currently in place, of which I believe to deny basic human rights.

Police enforce the laws. Where I live, that involves arresting people for doing the following things:

• Burglarizing houses.
• Stealing cars
• Fighting in public
• Beating your spouse
• Creating drugs
• Selling drugs
• Driving drunk
• Gunshots
• Shoplifting at Walmart

So which of these are “human rights” that the government mandates are denying?

 

[Scott Downey]

There should be room for something between Mad Max and what we saw in that video. A dog hit by a car and dying in the street would have been treated with more compassion than we saw Mr Floyd die with. I think that deserves a little criticism.

Use of force against people who are resisting is something that is taught and done everywhere.
Compassion is not the job of the police in such a situation. Control is.
That cop did not think Floyd would not be getting up again.

 

[percho]

There should be room for something between Mad Max and what we saw in that video. A dog hit by a car and dying in the street would have been treated with more compassion than we saw Mr Floyd die with. I think that deserves a little criticism.

Even if the dog had bit someone before it was hit?

 

[percho]

Police enforce the laws. Where I live, that involves arresting people for doing the following things:

• Burglarizing houses.
• Stealing cars
• Fighting in public
• Beating your spouse
• Creating drugs
• Selling drugs
• Driving drunk
• Gunshots
• Shoplifting at Walmart

So which of these are “human rights” that the government mandates are denying?

I was thinking of a vid I had watched earlier where Police accompanied a health worker to shut down a church.
Or like the cop in Texas pushing an old woman in a bank to the ground and handcuffing her behind her back for not wearing a mask.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

While I believe the charges are an overreach, I cannot say that "nothing is wrong" when a man dies pinned to the ground as police stand by and do nothing. What I saw showed a deficit of basic humanity. Policies and procedures need to change, and it is sad if it requires a "policy" to generate the empathy to comfort a dying man.

If you were anyone on that video, would you point to it with pride at how you performed your job that day?

Is it the testimony of the trial experts that Floyd died while pinned by Chauvin?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Is it the testimony of the trial experts that Floyd died while pinned by Chauvin?

Consider, for example, the testimony at around 6:28:00 in this clip:

Live: Derek Chauvin trial continues | Day 10

 

[atpollard]

Use of force against people who are resisting is something that is taught and done everywhere.
Compassion is not the job of the police in such a situation. Control is.
That cop did not think Floyd would not be getting up again.

Was he resisting the entire time he was being pinned face down on the ground by multiple police officers?
Was there a time when that level of restraint was no longer necessary? (After he was first restrained and before an ambulance revived him).

 

[atpollard]

Even if the dog had bit someone before it was hit?

Are you really advocating that because the dog bit someone, it should be beaten with a bat as it lie dying to insure that it’s life ends with as much agony as is humanly possible to inflict?

Floyd was restrained in a manner that inflicted maximum harm to his struggle to breathe. I cannot help but question if that was really necessary. Even if he was just having an asthma attack and had lived through the event, the prolonged restraint exacerbating the condition seems unnecessary cruelty. Everyone watching and all of the people that called 911 felt the same way.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Are you really advocating that because the dog bit someone, it should be beaten with a bat as it lie dying to insure that it’s life ends with as much agony as is humanly possible to inflict?

Floyd was restrained in a manner that inflicted maximum harm to his struggle to breathe. I cannot help but question if that was really necessary. Even if he was just having an asthma attack and had lived through the event, the prolonged restraint exacerbating the condition seems unnecessary cruelty. Everyone watching and all of the people that called 911 felt the same way.

"Beaten with a bat"? "Maximum harm"? Emotional hyperbole leading far from the facts.

There are relevant questions surrounding this incident. Did the officers act outside their training for such a volatile, hostile situation? The EMTs did not attempt any treatment on the scene. Why not? It's what they are there for.