Yes, Another Wine Thread!?!

I guess I prefer another wine thread to another whine thread.
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As long as I can tell which is which! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

For shame Richard! Don't you know that you are to immediately snatch those cups out of the hands of your precious innocent family BEFORE they can be corrupted by that devil alcohol!

(of course this means you must have tasted what was in the cup during the prayer that comes before partaking. )

 

Actaully that sort of happened Sunday. I visited another Church close by since my wife wasn't up to travel yet.

They actually gave you the choice but I took the wine because I believe that is the proper way.

To be honest, I don't think that would be a problem often. The types that use wine....have plenty of other doctrinal issues with the types that think it will corrupt you forever taking a tiny sip.

 

If the church is using alcohol in their communion, it is not a Biblical communion.

 

I would be no more concerned about it than I would be concerned if the men there were wearing, or not wearing, ties, or the women wore pants or did not. The only thing that should be on one's mind at that time is the body and blood of Jesus; not his skin pigment or his blood type.

 

Read Jeremiah 35 and Daniel 1.

Christians should not passively, "dutifully" take part in unfamiliar churches' rituals.
If in doubt, politely pass that tray on by.
Most churches do not expect or pressure visitors to participate.

 

There can be no better response this this one!!! Thank you, Jarome!!!

Bro. David

 

Excellent question Richard. I'll not address the kids here. I believe most that "believe all alcohol" is bad or us, when taking communion would have to spit it out when they tasted it. To them it would be sin, and should not attempt to "remember Christ Jesus at this time." This is the way He requested we remember Him, and we know the "fruit of the vine" is "wine", as shown in various places such as Joel 2:19, Genesis 14:18, and Genesis 9:21.

But many say this is only scripture. We have other books and other people that explain this so much better. We know Jesus did not correct the unbelievers in Luke 7:33-35 - " For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35. But wisdom is justified of all her children." We have no idea why He didn't correct them,

Those of you, which know and accept John the Baptist didn't eat bread or drink wine (and didn't eat with "publicans and sinners), why won't you believe Jesus ate bread and drank wine (with the "publicans and sinners). The people didn't sit around drinking "grape juice". This is the very reason John the Baptist could not do what Jesus did. He had to keep his distance from even a grape vine.

Jesus had no need to correct His accusers for He understood they were equating Him to the Jewish publicans, and sinners, for they were glutinous and heavy drinkers. This man Jesus was in this sinful body, and He was doing what He had come for. He had come for His countrymen that were sinners. He ate and drank the same as did the Jew, and as did Noah, and others after Him with the blessing of God, but were not to be drunkards.

We are to know He is man just like us, in a sinner's body. Does He sin as He eats bread and drinks wine that He gave the "corn and wine" to man, of which He also is? Can He not do the same thing He tells His people to do in Deuteronomy 14:26 with their "tithe money". " And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household".

With His blessing He gives us bread and wine. We do not have to partake, but I'll not refuse the bread and the wine, while He waits to complete His vow when the kingdom of God comes.

 

Let me ask another question - suppose I have been saved out of alcoholism, what do I do then? Is not the church in question guilty of allowing this liberty to "become a stumblingblock to them that are weak?" Are they not prohibiting in practice, if not in principle, such a person from coming to the Lord's Table?

Many people, though not classified as alcholic, left behind the booze when they got saved, and no longer desire to taste the stuff again, let alone in church. So why would a church use alcohol when grape juice will do just as well and create no offence or difficulty to anyone.

 

Because they believe that Jesus used wine, not grape juice, so not using wine would be an offense to them. Some churches offer juice on request, and others teach the difference between having wine in communion and recreational drinking.

 

So there were no Biblical communions before 1869 when Dr. Welch figured out how to make his amazing "unfermented sacramental wine"?

Just out of curiosity, in your opinion, when exactly did people start using fermented wine? I mean, by the time it got to Dr. Welch's day, people had been using fermented wine for centuries, and he didn't like it. But, in your opinion, it used to be unfermented wine to begin with. So, when exactly did it switch in your opinion? I dont' think it ever did, but according to you, it had to.

 

The sip of communion wine is no more sinister than a dose of cough syrup. I'm a teetotaler and I've taken cough syrup numerous times.

 

It's actually much less in my opinion. There's no way that anybody could come close to feeling the effects of the alcohol in the tiny amount that they put in those miniature cups, but you can definitely feel the cough syrup kick in.

 

Recovering Alcoholics will struggle with a just a sip of alcohol. Its not going to make them drunk, but it may whet their appetite for more.

 

One can avoid the situation in the OP by simply not participating in the Lord's Supper when visiting another congregation.

Oh, sorry, that calls for another thread.

 

That very thing happened to a professor of mine when he first became a missionary in Argentina. Immediately afterward the pastor asked him to pray. Initially he was shocked because he had been a proud teetotaler and then the pastor asked him to pray. He had to get over his shock enough to pray.

He got a quick introduction to a different culture.

 

blackbird said:

There can be no better response this this one!!!

If only Jeremiah 35 and Daniel 1 were dealing with church ordinances! Instead of faithfulness in an unfaithful culture.