You be the judge

[just-want-peace]

Granted this is bits and pieces, but IMO it shows the true colors of the "LEADER??" of this nation.
Your choice to believe or deny, but if enough of you deny, and you are wrong, -----!!:tear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

IMHO, this tells us that it matters a great deal whether the "lesser of two evils" is POTUS next or no!

Personally, I would prefer a Mormon to a Muslim.

 

[abcgrad94]

How could anyone have a doubt, after watching this, that Obama wants to cater to the Muslims?

I think I'm going to puke. He honestly thinks that "western nations" should let Muslims practice their religion the way THEY see fit, and not IMPEDE this in our own country? Hello? When the practice of their religion harms those of others religions, when it infringes on MY religious liberty, when it goes against the constitution of the USA and they want to change that, there's a HUGE problem.

Sorry, but everything I needed to know about Islam, I learned on 9/11.

 

[just-want-peace]

The truly sad part of all this, is that all one had to do WAY BACK YONDER was to look at what was KNOWN vs UNKNOWN about this yo-yo to know that he was looking at this job from a purely, 100%, selfish, "what's in it for ME" perspective; along with some hi-powered backing in the shadows.

I truly believe we are in that time that our Lord spoke of - in the future - when God will bring a delusion on the un-godly!

That is the only explanation that makes sense to me. There are always the "Jim Jones" of the cults, but they are very few in number, while the deluded re: the ZERO are stunning in multitude.

 

[Zaac]

Personally, I would prefer a Mormon to a Muslim.

Why? Evil is evil.

 

[mont974x4]

Because Mormons aren't out beheading people and do not propose a political/religious ideology that offers three choices...convert, die, or be enslaved.

 

[billwald]

I judge that Obama is a BAPTIZED Christian.

 

[mont974x4]

OK. You're free to believe that, and to claim that belief. I would assert that his policies and his mangling of Scripture are fruit enough to wash away any claim Obama made about being a Christian. They are steeped in black liberation theology and Islam, which are both distinctly anti-Christian.


Still, Romney is the moral superior to Obama. Romney is also the economic superior. Romney has superior Veep choice.


uhoh, I might be talking myself into voting for Romney. LOL

 

[Zaac]

Because Mormons aren't out beheading people and do not propose a political/religious ideology that offers three choices...convert, die, or be enslaved.

They just propose a convert to Mormonism and die and go to an eternal lake of fire approach.

evil is evil.

 

[Zaac]

OK. You're free to believe that, and to claim that belief. I would assert that his policies and his mangling of Scripture are fruit enough to wash away any claim Obama made about being a Christian. They are steeped in black liberation theology and Islam, which are both distinctly anti-Christian.


Still, Romney is the moral superior to Obama. Romney is also the economic superior. Romney has superior Veep choice.


uhoh, I might be talking myself into voting for Romney. LOL

Morals are measured against the standard that is Jesus Christ. As he rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, there is nothing moral about anything that he does because it is all, ultimately, self -serving.

 

[Zaac]

I judge that Obama is a BAPTIZED Christian.

He might be baptized. It's the Christian part that so many question.

In January of this year, Gallup reported:

More than three-quarters of Americans identify themselves as Christian, Gallup reports. Pollsters found that 78 percent of Americans identify with Christianity. Overall, more than 82 percent of Americans have a religious identity, with this percentage breakdown:

52.5: Protestant/other Christian

23.6: Catholic

1.9: Mormon

1.6: Jewish

0.5: Muslim

2.4: Other non-Christian

15: None/atheist/agnostic

2.5: No response

The findings fit the trend of an increasing percentage of Americans who do not embrace a formal religious identity.

In 1951, 1 percent of Americans did not have a religious identity, compared to 24 percent identifying as Catholic and 68 percent claiming a non-Catholic Christian faith.

Gallup found earlier this year that 92 percent of Americans say they believe in God, which suggests that a lack of religious identity is not necessarily linked to atheism.

Gallup Poll

 

[mont974x4]

I am not saying Romney is saved.


Don't confuse moral with holy. Don't confuse "good man" with blameless or righteous.

Now, if all you are willing to vote for is an actual born-again disciple of Christ you are going to have a very short list of options.


Personally, I see the 2 party system as a travesty. Presently the choices are Obama or Obama-lite. I am really not voting for either one.

All that said, Scripture tells us that nobody is in authority unless God places him there. If God wants a Pharaoh to enact His judgment on the US then that's who we will get. If God wants a born again, non-compromising man to bring this nation to repentance, that is who we will get. In America God works through voters. I say, vote your conscience and support everyone elses right to do the same.

 

[just-want-peace]

Why? Evil is evil.

So, if I understand your position correctly, if your friendly neighborhood taliban captain threatened to lop off your head OR your hand, (your choice) you would refuse to choose???

That is the same logic you are using re: this election!

I agree with another poster who stated that you just vote YOUR conscience while abstaining judgement on others who do likewise, but not to your standard.

You do know that this gov't is set up for the participation of all citizens, don't you?? That being the case,each of us will answer to HIM for our choice - I'm at peace with my choice right now, and that is to get the better of the two into the POTUS position.

(Or, the lesser of two evils if that is your criteria.)

 

[LadyEagle]

Only God knows Mitt Romney's heart.

David was a murderer and an adulterer and more.

But in Scripture, God said David was a man after His own heart.

Jesus said "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God."

Who is to say if Mitt Romney is not presently a Christian that he will not become one? Who here is willing to judge Mitt Romney's heart that it is not pure?

The Bible says we are to be fruit inspectors. The fruit I have seen and heard from Mitt Romney, but mostly from those who know him and a few testimonials from those he has helped, tell me he has good fruit in his life.

What little "dirt" that has been thrown at him by the obama campaign has been proven to be unfounded. There is no REAL dirt or REAL story. There is a life of good morals, character, accomplishment, dedication, perseverence, achievement, selflessness, and blessings. And charitable giving.

I can't say the same when I inspect the fruit of Obama. I see selfishness, narcissism, greed, corruption, wickedness, disregard for the Office of President and our Constitution. I see scandal after scandal from ACORN to the latest law suit against Gallup Poll and squandering of our tax dollars as favors to his campaign contributors, like Solyndra, $500 million of our dollars thrown away. I see a man who cares nothing about our national debt and, in fact, seems to enjoy driving this country over the fiscal cliff while he vacations and golfs on our dime. Even from his past, toking cocaine, smoking marijuana, and more.

I ask you, Zaac, did you watch the Republican Convention and see and hear the testimonials from people Mitt Romney has blessed with his charitable acts of kindness and goodness? Did you hear about the 14-year-old boy with cancer that he helped?

How do you think you are helping our nation or being light and salt in this earth when you constantly belittle a man who has shown character and is the ONLY candidate of the 2 who supports marriage between a man and a woman and is pro-life?

 

[Zaac]

I am not saying Romney is saved.


Don't confuse moral with holy. Don't confuse "good man" with blameless or righteous.

Believe me, I haven't confused the two because neither Romney nor Obama are either.

Now, if all you are willing to vote for is an actual born-again disciple of Christ you are going to have a very short list of options.

I can always write someone in.

Personally, I see the 2 party system as a travesty. Presently the choices are Obama or Obama-lite. I am really not voting for either one.

I'm literally not voting for either one.

All that said, Scripture tells us that nobody is in authority unless God places him there. If God wants a Pharaoh to enact His judgment on the US then that's who we will get. If God wants a born again, non-compromising man to bring this nation to repentance, that is who we will get. In America God works through voters. I say, vote your conscience and support everyone elses right to do the same.

It's the conscience part I question. God is not authoring confusion on this issue. Because Christians feel like they have to vote for Obama or Obama-lite, and they really want to get rid of Obama, they are voting for darkness.

A house divided cannot stand. What fellowship can light have with darkness? This is why the country is destined to fail. The Body is endorsing a man who is against Christ. That's wickedness. And it is OUR wickedness that has the country in its current state. But God is getting ready to deal with this wickedness.

I think the Church has confused conscience and its "wants" with the Holy Spirit and obedience.

 

[Zaac]

So, if I understand your position correctly, if your friendly neighborhood taliban captain threatened to lop off your head OR your hand, (your choice) you would refuse to choose???

This is crazy. Why would I choose to have either chopped off? Ain't nobody forcing Christians to vote for evil. they are CHOOSING to.

That is the same logic you are using re: this election!

it sure is. And as with your example, I CHOOSE neither because I don't have to.

I agree with another poster who stated that you just vote YOUR conscience while abstaining judgement on others who do likewise, but not to your standard.

Naah. I'm just calling it like I see it. And in righteous judgment I see a people so caught up in this world that they will use the conscience as the excuse to support THEIR desires in direct opposition to Christ. So yes, just as I can be called judgmental for seeing THAT, the folks who are doing THAT pass judgment too.

You do know that this gov't is set up for the participation of all citizens, don't you?? That being the case,each of us will answer to HIM for our choice - I'm at peace with my choice right now, and that is to get the better of the two into the POTUS position.

And that's fine. I'm not saying that you're doing this, but folks feel at peace all the time about doing the wrong thing. That's how we got cults. That's how we got progressives, etc. :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Only God knows Mitt Romney's heart.

David was a murderer and an adulterer and more.

But in Scripture, God said David was a man after His own heart.

Jesus said "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God."

Who is to say if Mitt Romney is not presently a Christian that he will not become one? Who here is willing to judge Mitt Romney's heart that it is not pure?

Gosh, this is EXACTLY what I mean. The man is condemned and on the way to hell by his own testimony. And you want to know who here is willing to judge the pureness of his heart?(smh)

Let me raise my hand. Perhaps this is why God would raise up prophets in the past to just speak the truth regardless. It is this type of "who knowism" that feeds confusion.

And that is not to say that he can't be saved. But right now, sitting in the Mormon church with the beliefs that he DOES have, he's on the way to hell.

The Bible says we are to be fruit inspectors. The fruit I have seen and heard from Mitt Romney, but mostly from those who know him and a few testimonials from those he has helped, tell me he has good fruit in his life.

And this is borderline blasphemous which is AGAIN why this madness needs to stop. The man was and is a high ranking member in a CULT. Fruit is produced by the SPIRIT. He does not have the SPIRIT. For sure the devil will come as an angel of light and attempt to duplicate the things of Christ.

I can't even believe we're discussing this. i can't even believe that there is any question about whether or not this man is on the way to hell. This is where the duplicity starts. This is where the CHURCH leaves folks thinking "well if his heart might be pure and he's a professing Mormon, maybe mine is too and I'm a professing Muslim, Buddhist, etc,."

When we start authoring confusion of this magnitude, it's time for God to do something. And all this because folks who a few months ago wouldn't have dreamed of supporting Romney now feel convicted that they must support him.

What little "dirt" that has been thrown at him by the obama campaign has been proven to be unfounded. There is no REAL dirt or REAL story. There is a life of good morals, character, accomplishment, dedication, perseverence, achievement, selflessness, and blessings. And charitable giving.

There is a life of an evil, deceptive man mired in deception. Again, morals are measured by the standard WHO is perfect holiness. There is nothing moral or selfless in one who rejects Jesus Christ.

I can't say the same when I inspect the fruit of Obama. I see selfishness, narcissism, greed, corruption, wickedness, disregard for the Office of President and our Constitution. I see scandal after scandal from ACORN to the latest law suit against Gallup Poll and squandering of our tax dollars as favors to his campaign contributors, like Solyndra, $500 million of our dollars thrown away. I see a man who cares nothing about our national debt and, in fact, seems to enjoy driving this country over the fiscal cliff while he vacations and golfs on our dime. Even from his past, toking cocaine, smoking marijuana, and more.

I completely agree. But the exact same things that are mentioned in that first sentence are present in Romney and people are conveniently choosing to ignore this because they want to get rid of Obama.

I ask you, Zaac, did you watch the Republican Convention and see and hear the testimonials from people Mitt Romney has blessed with his charitable acts of kindness and goodness? Did you hear about the 14-year-old boy with cancer that he helped?

Yep. He's proof that the devil is able to bless you. Again, I can't even believe we are NOW having a discussion about this man's goodness when he is completely wicked through and through.

How do you think you are helping our nation or being light and salt in this earth when you constantly belittle a man who has shown character and is the ONLY candidate of the 2 who supports marriage between a man and a woman and is pro-life?

I am completely dumbfounded but not surprised that this is where the dialog on this incredibly wicked man will now turn.

He's wicked to the core . There is nothing of character in him. He is the candidate that folks have CHOSEN as a party's nominee. But he's just as wicked as the other. And the fact that Christians are now rising up in defense of him as a good, moral man says it's time for God to shake us.

 

[Don]

Kinda funny, Zaac. You see, for 29 years, I, too, was wicked to the core. I don't know what church my parents took me to when I was little. Went to a methodist church for a few years. Stopped going to any church for a few years. Tried mormonism for a little while, but something rang false about it. Stopped again for a few more years. My wife convinced me to give it another try; and lo and behold, this time someone actually showed me what the bible really said.

Yep, I was wicked through-and-through; but somehow, God didn't give up on me.

So you'll forgive me if I disagree with what you wrote to LadyEagle, because I think I'm living proof that God can save someone out of mormonism, and He can save someone later in life.

So I'll pray for Romney--just like I do for Obama--that he'll know the true Jesus as his true savior. And I'll pray for this country, that He will guide whoever He places as our leader. And I'll continue to pray for His guidance as I go into the voting booth and cast my ballot.

 

[Zaac]

Kinda funny, Zaac. You see, for 29 years, I, too, was wicked to the core. I don't know what church my parents took me to when I was little. Went to a methodist church for a few years. Stopped going to any church for a few years. Tried mormonism for a little while, but something rang false about it. Stopped again for a few more years. My wife convinced me to give it another try; and lo and behold, this time someone actually showed me what the bible really said.

Yep, I was wicked through-and-through; but somehow, God didn't give up on me.

So you'll forgive me if I disagree with what you wrote to LadyEagle, because I think I'm living proof that God can save someone out of mormonism, and He can save someone later in life.

I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with as I didn't not say that God couldn't save anyone out of Mormonism.

And I pray that He does save Mitt Romney. But as it stands right now and the beliefs Mitt Romney has, he is on the way to an eternal lake of fire. And there doesn't need to be any confusion about this as though his actions have some how made him better morally than another anti-Christ.

So I'll pray for Romney--just like I do for Obama--that he'll know the true Jesus as his true savior. And I'll pray for this country, that He will guide whoever He places as our leader. And I'll continue to pray for His guidance as I go into the voting booth and cast my ballot.

I will do likewise.:1_grouphug:

And let me just say Don, that what LE did with the "who knows" is why I have so passionately spoken up repeatedly on this because i've seen this very thing coming from a mile away.

He is sadly on the way to hell and his perceived moral character or nothing else should blind us from seeing that just because he is a party's nominee. we CANNOT and MUST NOT continue down this path if THAT is what we would have people to believe.

That on the church's behalf would be wickedness.

 

[LadyEagle]

Amen, Don, Amen. :thumbs:

And let me just say Don, that what LE did with the "who knows" is why I have so passionately spoken up repeatedly on this because i've seen this very thing coming from a mile away.

He is sadly on the way to hell and his perceived moral character or nothing else should blind us from seeing that just because he is a party's nominee. we CANNOT and MUST NOT continue down this path if THAT is what we would have people to believe.

That on the church's behalf would be wickedness.

But, Zaac, that is your opinion.

Can you name one presidential candidate in your life time that you knew for sure was a Christian? Or have you never voted?

We have one candidate who prefesses to be a Christian, but he is for same sex marriage and abortion on demand at any stage from conception on. And with an iron fist of obamacare, he will force all believers who have over 50 employees including religious organizations (Lifeway, Baptist Hospitals, Catholic Hospitals, and more) to pay for insurance plans that cover payment for abortions, abortifacients, and birth control pills - even though abortion is against our Biblical beliefs.

As a Christian, I have to vote against that, believing the promise by Mitt Romney that he will appeal obamacare.

Mitt Romney believes he is a Christian, BTW.

As a Christian, I have to vote for a candidate that is likely to appoint conservative, pro-life, pro-marriage between a man and woman, Supreme Court Justices - instead of those who are of the opposite beliefs like the 2 obama appointed.

As a Christian, I have to vote for someone who will promote religious liberty, especially Christianity, instead of seeking to suppress it.


We have no bonafide born-again Christian candidate (that we can see into their heart and know beyond a doubt, but, hey, actually I don't know that about you because I can't see your heart and you don't know that about me because you can't see my heart - is my point that you keep missing), so until that time comes, as citizens we have to vote for the best "secular" person to lead our country - and now we are at a crossroads - do we want to continue down the proven path of socialism that obama is leading us down, or do we want to stop it by electing Romney?

Or are we to be as a song once said - so "heavenly minded we are no earthly good?"

We are to be salt and light - as a Christian, I believe I am taking a salt and light stance by voting against the policies of evil.

Jesus admonished: “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” (Matthew 10:16)

As Christians, as Americans, we have 4 choices: (1) Don't vote. (2) Vote for Obama. (3) Vote for Romney. (4) Vote for a 3rd party.

Or we can lie down in our self righteousness over the choices and self pity and do nothing. Me - like Nehemiah - I intend to do my part to vote my conscience and try to rebuild the (wall) of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that we have been blessed with so that we can continue to worship in freedom, live in freedom, and continue to Spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout this great land and throughout the world before the KING comes.

So bug off. :flower:

 

[Zaac]

Amen, Don, Amen. :thumbs:



But, Zaac, that is your opinion.

No it is not an opinion. It's a BIBLICAL fact. He's worshiping a false god. He's on the way to hell and you need to stop this authoring of confusion that he is not. That man does not know Jesus and you know that he does not.

Can you name one presidential candidate in your life time that you knew for sure was a Christian? Or have you never voted?

We're not talking about other Presidential candidates. we're talking about Willard Mitt Romney, the man who served as pastor in the Mormon Church. The man who has proclaimed that he knows that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that the church is true.

We have one candidate who prefesses to be a Christian, but he is for same sex marriage and abortion on demand at any stage from conception on.
And with an iron fist of obamacare, he will force all believers who have over 50 employees including religious organizations (Lifeway, Baptist Hospitals, Catholic Hospitals, and more) to pay for insurance plans that cover payment for abortions, abortifacients, and birth control pills - even though abortion is against our Biblical beliefs.

He's an anti-Christ.

As a Christian, I have to vote against that, believing the promise by Mitt Romney that he will appeal obamacare.

He's a man whose belief system is based in a lie. He's a deceiver just as he has been deceived in his faith.

Mitt Romney believes he is a Christian, BTW.

Barack Obama believes he is a Christian by the way. If Mitt Romney is a Christian then so is Barack Obama.

As a Christian, I have to vote for a candidate that is likely to appoint conservative, pro-life, pro-marriage between a man and woman, Supreme Court Justices - instead of those who are of the opposite beliefs like the 2 obama appointed.

As a Christian, we are called to love Christ FIRST. He can handle all that other stuff and probably would if His people would trust and obey FIRST instead of thinking that we can place people in office who can fix those things.

We're missing what our focus is supposed to be. God will place folks in authority based upon US.

And if Obama is re-elected and gets to place pro-abortionists on the SCOTUS, believe me, you can trace that right back to US.

God MUST be first no matter what we think a man is going to do.

A

s a Christian, I have to vote for someone who will promote religious liberty, especially Christianity, instead of seeking to suppress it.

Obedience is better than sacrifice.

We have no bonafide born-again Christian candidate (that we can see into their heart and know beyond a doubt, but, hey, actually I don't know that about you because I can't see your heart and you don't know that about me because you can't see my heart - is my point that you keep missing)

,

I know that you haven't professed to be a Mormon, a person whose beliefs run contrary to God's holy word as Mitt Romney has. So again, there's no need to be second guessing where Mitt Romney is on his way to any more than folks would second guess where Osama Bin Laden went for not renouncing Islam.

so until that time comes, as citizens we have to vote for the best "secular" person to lead our country

No we don't. Apparently a lot of you think we do, but we certainly do not especially if that person promotes that which is against Christ.

- and now we are at a crossroads - do we want to continue down the proven path of socialism that obama is leading us down, or do we want to stop it by electing Romney?

The problem with this sentiment is that folks think they can stop the downward spiral of the country by electing a man. Why on earth would a holy God allow the fate of the country to change course just because Christians decide to STILL choose evil over HIM?

So yes, we have a choice. Most Christians seem to be set to make the wrong choice and THAT is why I fear God will give us four more years of all the utter hell barack Obama can bring upon this country.

Or are we to be as a song once said - so "heavenly minded we are no earthly good?"

We better figure out how to not endorse those who are against Christ in our desire to be some earthly good.

We are to be salt and light - as a Christian, I believe I am taking a salt and light stance by voting against the policies of evil.

That's crazy. How are you taking a salt and light stance against evil by voting for another equally evil man who you have said might have a pure heart?

Jesus admonished: “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” (Matthew 10:16)

And He also says in His word :15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. James 3:15-16

The wisdom to support Mitt Romney in any fashion is not of God and that's why it is authoring the confusion that it is for folks.

As Christians, as Americans, we have 4 choices: (1) Don't vote. (2) Vote for Obama. (3) Vote for Romney. (4) Vote for a 3rd party.

As Christians, we also have the option to not vote for anyone who shows himself to be against Christ.

This is a dangerous thing that Christians are doing and we will be held responsible. For that very man that so many Christians are willing to look past his worship of a false god to because they think he will be better for the country than Barack Obama, is the very reason why the country will get four more years of Obama and deservingly so.

Our sacrifice of overlooking his worship of a false god and to his "good" qualities to save the country from it's current path is not better than obedience.

Or we can lie down in our self righteousness over the choices and self pity and do nothing.

Or we can trust that God is sovereign and that He is going to take care of His children. But we better also recognize that He disciplines His children to. And we are CLEARLY setting ourselves up for a good old fashioned, take em to the woodshed whupping.

Me - like Nehemiah - I intend to do my part to vote my conscience and try to rebuild the (wall) of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that we have been blessed with so that we can continue to worship in freedom, live in freedom, and continue to Spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout this great land and throughout the world before the KING comes.

As I said, I think folks are confusing THEIR consciences with God's Holy Spirit. God is not dividing His house by encouraging folks to support a man who is against Him because it's for the "greater" good. Man is doing that.

So bug off. :flower:

:laugh: