==Thats a great idea! I forgot about NOBTS's online programs.
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Your opinion of Liberty U
- Thread starter Havensdad
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==Thats a great idea! I forgot about NOBTS's online programs.
Accidentally hit the back button...I'll have to rewrite my lengthy reply. But a quick hit:
Not sure about today, but in previous years, SBTS required a year each of Hebrew and Greek, and not just the "Greek/Hebrew tools" classes you get at Liberty. Those would not work. I know some who have tried and were unsuccessful.
More to come.....
Not sure about today, but in previous years, SBTS required a year each of Hebrew and Greek, and not just the "Greek/Hebrew tools" classes you get at Liberty. Those would not work. I know some who have tried and were unsuccessful.
More to come.....
Tom,
From their 2009 catalog:
"D.Min. Expository Preaching applicants must have a minimum of one
(preferably two) semesters of graduate level study of Hebrew and
Greek."
Note that this requirement is NOT required of all the D. Min. programs, only a D. Min in expository preaching. If one desired to get a D. Min in Evangelism, Biblical Spirituality, etc. etc., there are NO language requirements.
I find that shocking and disappointing that they've watered down the requirements. Dont short-change yourself. Get a year of each in the fully blown courses. However, if you're not looking at Doctoral work, the "tools" courses from Liberty would do (still, go ahead and do the year each.
The undergrad is listed with the SBCV but LBTS receives no CP $, so it's not a SB seminary nor are the trustees elected by the messengers from the churches of the convention.
The bigger part is (as we have discussed before) when ATS tried to bully SBTS in the early to mid 90s and it grossly backfired. The Big Six threatened to walk away from the ATS, taking lots of students and money with it. ATS was rendered impotent and toothless, and has been from then on. As far as transfer of credits, I wouldn't worry at all. RA is the gold standard and ATS is NA/specialty. That said, be proactive as Martin said. If you know you want to do a Doctorate somewhere that requires your school to have the ATS stamp of approval, then know ahead of time.
I tend to agree, but with so many non denom schools training ministers and other denom folks studiying at a particular denom seminary, you have some issues there that requires some sort of bridge standard. I think RA suffices, but some are still clinging to ATS (not many). I used to see churches ask for ATS from their candidates. I see that almost never now.
Yes. But beware of the school that majors on the minors and minors on the majors.
As much as they can, yes.
Yes.
Somewhat. I think it's reasonable to require a qtr or a third done on campus with the intensives. I think a lower level Master's would be fine if it was done entirely online with an intensive or two. M.Div? No. That's what I love about the Big six. All the extension centers make it possible for you to do the on-campus part there. You can do an entire degree without setting foot in Louisville, Wake Forest, Fort Worth, etc. SBTS has extension centers all over the eastern seaboard.
DTS requires a year of Hebrew and two years of Greek for their D.Min program
http://www.dts.edu/admissions/degrees/doctoral/dmin/dminoverview/
Interesting. Piper warned us of abandoning language requirements, esp in D.Min programs, in Brothers, We Are Not Professionals.
http://www.dts.edu/admissions/degrees/doctoral/dmin/dminoverview/
Interesting. Piper warned us of abandoning language requirements, esp in D.Min programs, in Brothers, We Are Not Professionals.
No worries, Tom. I already have a year of Greek (haven't taken my final on Greek II yet, though), and am planning to take at least one semester of intermediate Greek Exegesis from NOBTS, as well as a semester or two of Hebrew. I would take more (perhaps doing their Graduate certificate in Biblical languages program), but the darn little rascals don't take my federal aid. I am sorry, but that was a foolish decision.
But I would like to say, I disagree with you. The D. Min. is a professional doctorate, not a research doctorate. And while I can certainly see why the Biblical languages would be necessary for a D. Min. in Expository Preaching, I hardly see how this would be necessary for a D. Min. in Church planting or Missions. ESPECIALLY considering the advancement in Greek and Hebrew language tools.
Anyway, that's just my (inexperienced) two cents. I certainly could be wrong.
:smilewinkgrin: Indeed you are :tongue3:
Church planting requires Biblical knowledge/communication, which requires knowledge of languages. Missions requires the same. Youth work requires the same. Martin Luther used to say that the further we get from the original languages, the farther we get from the original doctrines. I wholeheartedly agree.
Mind you, I'm not talking about pastors, youth ministers, etc. getting up to teach and doing hour long lessons on Wed night on the abused aorist. I'm talking about men of God doing the hard work in the study before they stand before their church, house group, marketplace, or youth gathering knowing they have a confidence in their understanding of the text that didn't come third hand from the latest fad book.
No question that the tools have come a long way. But they're tools to aid our study of the lanugage, not supplant it.
Even more shocking is that this is a change in policy at SBTS. Their D.Min in preaching required a year of each, not just preferred it. Gordon Conwell and Beeson also required this in the past (the latter waived the 90 hr rule, but not the language requirement) for a general D.Min.
I refer again to Piper's prescient essay in "Brothers, We Are Not Professionals." If you do not own this book (and why don't you? :laugh
I'll post the essay.
Church planting requires Biblical knowledge/communication, which requires knowledge of languages. Missions requires the same. Youth work requires the same. Martin Luther used to say that the further we get from the original languages, the farther we get from the original doctrines. I wholeheartedly agree.
Mind you, I'm not talking about pastors, youth ministers, etc. getting up to teach and doing hour long lessons on Wed night on the abused aorist. I'm talking about men of God doing the hard work in the study before they stand before their church, house group, marketplace, or youth gathering knowing they have a confidence in their understanding of the text that didn't come third hand from the latest fad book.
No question that the tools have come a long way. But they're tools to aid our study of the lanugage, not supplant it.
Even more shocking is that this is a change in policy at SBTS. Their D.Min in preaching required a year of each, not just preferred it. Gordon Conwell and Beeson also required this in the past (the latter waived the 90 hr rule, but not the language requirement) for a general D.Min.
I refer again to Piper's prescient essay in "Brothers, We Are Not Professionals." If you do not own this book (and why don't you? :laugh
I'll post the essay.I got in!!
This is VERY big for me, because my undergrad is unaccredited. Although I have some accredited undergrad work, I did not have an accredited degree. I am on probation for the first semester, until I can prove that I can meet their standards, but...
I am in! Sweet!!!
(Sorry, I'm excited!)
This is VERY big for me, because my undergrad is unaccredited. Although I have some accredited undergrad work, I did not have an accredited degree. I am on probation for the first semester, until I can prove that I can meet their standards, but...
I am in! Sweet!!!
(Sorry, I'm excited!)
Carolina Baptist
Active Member
I am considering Liberty. I am concerned about the recient news about their political stand. Another school I inquired about was less open about their doctrine.
I have a full time job and a bi-vocational ministry, so I would have to study either locally or DE.
I am looking at undergrad.
I have a full time job and a bi-vocational ministry, so I would have to study either locally or DE.
I am looking at undergrad.
Ironically at Liberty there is the exact opposite thing that happens on most secular college/university campuses. People who don't toe the right-wing Republican line get a hard time at LU whereas at other schools it is vice versa.
Honestly, I didn't toe-the-line during my time and ended up rolling my eyes and pressing on. I think we all can disagree politely and know what to take as "Gospel" and what is preference. It is more of a welcoming place now than when I was there...if that matters.
Many professors were encouraging to me in my differing views, so long as we agreed on some essentials. That is a good thing. Of course studying at other schools I've received more open minded treatment about things but LU is still a good school.
Carolina Baptist said:
Wow, hey way to go about the bi-vocational thing. You are an inspiration to me. We need more bi-vocational ministers, not less. The professionalization of ministry is killing our churches in many ways. That said I would really encourage you to consider LU as a viable option because of their quality in the DE. You can do lots of classes at a local community college to get basic courses out of the way. Their DE program is one of the best and I echo what GB said above, most people graduating from LU I know are well prepared for ministry.:thumbsup:
Let's just say I'm a former student, I'm conservative by all accounts part of that drew me away from Liberty. I am open minded a lot of conservative southern baptists would be appalled at what goes on at LUO (Liberty University Online), and who they accept. Its almost like a non-denom (no disrespect because I totally understand), but with no grounds. We were actually enrolled in a small southern baptist college (had to leave due to money issues), but enjoyed it, and had to sign a 'statement of faith.' Liberty didn't offer that. The statement of faith was basically just your view of salvation and if you were saved, they did not disregard you if you weren't a believer but it made one think if they were an atheist wanting a fight-and I'm sure Liberty has some, or close-Online.
Depending on what you want to major in, Liberty may or may not be your cup of tea. I did well there, but it was a hard decision to leave. My husband also attends and we cannot both afford to attend, and this is my last time to not "attend" so therefore they are going to withdraw me. Liberty does have a good reputation among people, although if you plan on going into the 'working world', you might have to explain your school. Ministry it should be fine, I wish they offered more options undergrad I might've stayed. Prepare to spend some money on books, it's the bookstore, just giving you a heads up, most colleges are that way.
I've heard that going to Liberty to the actual campus is a great experience and I do not doubt that, however online, it is different. The contact is sparce between classmates and there is some tension between blurred lines of doctrine and denomination. I will not name names. I am happy I took the time to go to Liberty and I'm also happy with my recent choice of major and school. I wish I could actually go to an actual campus again-but a state campus--to witness.
Liberty has some great volunteer experiences for on-campus students and a good ministry team. They are pretty helpful via distance.
In the end, its up to you and God. I just wanted to explain some things and my experience.
Keep up the good fight.
Keep on Keepin On.
Depending on what you want to major in, Liberty may or may not be your cup of tea. I did well there, but it was a hard decision to leave. My husband also attends and we cannot both afford to attend, and this is my last time to not "attend" so therefore they are going to withdraw me. Liberty does have a good reputation among people, although if you plan on going into the 'working world', you might have to explain your school. Ministry it should be fine, I wish they offered more options undergrad I might've stayed. Prepare to spend some money on books, it's the bookstore, just giving you a heads up, most colleges are that way.
I've heard that going to Liberty to the actual campus is a great experience and I do not doubt that, however online, it is different. The contact is sparce between classmates and there is some tension between blurred lines of doctrine and denomination. I will not name names. I am happy I took the time to go to Liberty and I'm also happy with my recent choice of major and school. I wish I could actually go to an actual campus again-but a state campus--to witness.
Liberty has some great volunteer experiences for on-campus students and a good ministry team. They are pretty helpful via distance.
In the end, its up to you and God. I just wanted to explain some things and my experience.
Keep up the good fight.
Keep on Keepin On.
Nothing you have said lined up with my experience. Not only did I have to sign saying I agreed with their statement of faith, I had to submit a pastoral reccomendation, a written statement of my salvation experience and testimony, and anything that I disagreed with at Liberty.
Were you taking undergrad studies there? Because the online Seminary is NOTHING like you describe. If you were taking undergrad or secular studies there, you need to understand that those are different. Anyone can take those classes. Only the Seminary is restricted.
I've heard people talk about the stuff kalli mentioned. Years ago anyway, the DL was pretty open. A pastor friend of mine took counsling intensives with a secularist whom he said was as foul mouthed as a drunken sailor after hammering his thumb. My friend said Bible trusting Christians were few to be found. It is what it is. I don't know how they are today. I only know what I know from limited second-hand experience. Everyone's experiences are just that. You cannot deny them, nor can you judge the whole entity by them.