Your "time" to die

Well, I don't think we should stop doing things--things that are "good" things, just because we are afraid of death.

For example, I know a lot of people afraid of flying right now. Next week I have a flight out to Salt Lake City in prep for a mission trip there in the spring. I do not believe that this flight, in and of itself is evil or will be the cause of my death. . but if it is, I can walk through my house and die. I would rather fly and die... it will be more fun...

 

I don't know of anything in the scripture that would indicate that this is true. People make this statement, in my experience, to justify risky behaviour that invites death. They say "it doesn't matter how risky my behavious is, when it's time to go I'm going." The Bible does say that it is appointed to man once to die, but if this involves the time of death, then in God's sovereignty he would also be in control of the circumstances. The statement reflects a fatalistic view of life that I do not accept.

 

Prayer could delay death. See the story of Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20:1-11. God added 15 years to the life of Hezekiah. Not to mention those who were raised from the dead by O/T prophets, Jesus, and the apostles.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kathy:
Is there any Biblical truth to this statement "When it's your time to go, it's your time, nothing you can do about it" Does the Bible tell us that God takes people because we all have pre-determined times to go? I'm asking because of a conversation I had. I disagree with this theory, however, if the Word of God says otherwise, I shall err on the side of the Lord.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Job 14:5 Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with You; You have appointed his limits, so that he cannot pass.

Psalms 39:4 "LORD, make me to know my end, And what is the measure of my days, That I may know how frail I am.

Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

Does not the Sovereign God, who foreordains all ends from the beginning, also foreordain the birth and death of men?

 

I do not doubt the sovereignty of God. But the intent of the statement given above as I have heard it used is that it does not matter how I live my life, because I'm gonna die when I'm gonna die. Such a fatalistic attitude about life is simply wrong. It DOES matter how you live your life.

[ September 22, 2001: Message edited by: swaimj ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by swaimj:
I do not doubt the sovereignty of God. But the intent of the statement given above as I have heard it used is that it does not matter how I live my life, because I'm gonna die when I'm gonna die. Such a fatalistic attitude about life is simply wrong. It DOES matter how you live your life.

[ September 22, 2001: Message edited by: swaimj ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen to that. God's sovereignty does not cancel out man's responsibility.

 

"Is there any Biblical truth to this statement "When it's your time to go, it's your time, nothing you can do about it"
--It is true only in the sense that your life is in the hands of God, even as Job's life was in the hand of God. Satan could do nothing to him without the permission of God.
Rev.1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Christ owns the keys to death.
As long as we are in the center of His will our lives our immortal, until it is His time for us to go.

 

"When it's your time to go, it's your time, nothing you can do about it"

If we really believed this we wouldn't teach our children to look both ways before they cross the street.

HankD

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HankD:
"When it's your time to go, it's your time, nothing you can do about it"

If we really believed this we wouldn't teach our children to look both ways before they cross the street.
HankD<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But isn't there a difference between death and health? If it's God's decision when to take us home, is it somewhat our decision the condition we're in while still here?
Could not looking both ways could just mean the difference between in a wheelchair or death?

[ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: Purple Lady ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kathy:


*SHAZAM*
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking and you illustrated it perfectly! Thank you!

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kathy:

Don’t shout Shazam just yet That is really the wrong question. Within that question are two better questions:

1. How come when people look both ways when they cross the street they are safe in crossing it?
2. How come sometimes people look both ways and get killed anyway?

The answer is that they are not killed until the time God has appointed for them. The original question presupposes that if all things are determined that we then might as well be fatalistic and step into oncoming traffic. But this is not what Scripture says.

Scripture teaches that God has determined the end of all things from the beginning , yet we are morally responsible agents required to make decisions. The mystery lies in the relationship of secondary causes (all that we know and live in and react to in this world) to the First Cause (God, who in His will causes all things by using secondary causes). This is such a foreign notion to us, because we have never encountered a first cause in our life. Everything we interact with is in the realm of secondary causes.

There is little doubt (biblically) that God caused the attack on America on 9/11/01. It was in His divine plan to serve a Divine purpose. No one who died that day or shortly thereafter ever had the slightest chance of not dying. Yet God did not sin - He cannot - but He used the sinful actions of sinful men to fulfill His greater purposes, whatever they may be (judgment, revival, etc).

So the answer why do we teach our children to look both ways while crossing the road is simple: to keep them safe and alive. It is the same reason God gives us His Word, so that we may follow it and choose us this day whom we will serve. Yet He has chosen beforehand whom He has elected unto salvation. And on the day given us to die, we will die, just as Christ died on the day determined for Him from eternity past. Yet while still in this world we are held responsible for making smart and godly choices of action. It is the mystery of Primary/Secondary causes.

 

When its our time to go...

Carried to its logical conclusion why do anything to eliminate any risk since its all the will of God anyway?

Why brush your teeth when they are going to fall out at God's time?
Why get your children vaccinated?
Why have your appendix taken out?
Why buy insurance of any kind?
Why make investments of any kind?
Etc...etc

I think it is safe to say that our actions speak louder than our words.
Not that its wrong, but this whole line of reasoning falls apart when we look at our lives.
We certainly appear to live our lives as if we were the masters of our own destinies.

HankD

[ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Dear Dr. Bob,

I think perhaps you have missed my point (if indeed you are challenging it).

We live in at least two worlds.
The one in which we proclaim our theology.
The one in which we act out our lives.

OR

What we say and what we do are often contrary to one another.

Let me illustrate:

Matthew 6
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Yet, how many of us "gather into barns" and have a portfolio, a 401K or a little nest egg for a "rainy day"?

I do.

So, with my intellect, I say yes to all your questions.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HankD:
We live in at least two worlds.
The one in which we proclaim our theology.
The one in which we act out our lives.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that this is what many do, yet it is a grievous error. I have heard this even in a seminary ethics class, where a student will say, "well that (ethical truth) is fine, but we live in the real world...".

This is erroneous and the reason for so much heteropraxy. This is the reason for many bad practices, including evangelism: make a decision, say a prayer, walk and aisle, and be saved. Until we unite good biblical theology with good biblical practice, we will live and act and look like the world.

 

&gt;&gt;This is erroneous and the reason for so much heteropraxy. This is the reason for many bad practices, including evangelism: make a decision, say a prayer, walk and aisle, and be saved. Until we unite good biblical theology with good biblical practice, we will live and act and look like the world.&gt;&gt;

Well, that still leaves the dilemma:
of taking no thought for my life as Jesus commanded.

Should I cash in my 401K?

HankD

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HankD:

Well, that still leaves the dilemma:
of taking no thought for my life as Jesus commanded.

Should I cash in my 401K?

HankD<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. I'm not so sure saving up for "retirement years" is the biblical admonition.

 

"Go to the ant thou sluggard; consider her ways and be wise."

And ants don't practice heteropraxy either!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kathy:
Is there any Biblical truth to this statement "When it's your time to go, it's your time, nothing you can do about it" Does the Bible tell us that God takes people because we all have pre-determined times to go? I'm asking because of a conversation I had. I disagree with this theory, however, if the Word of God says otherwise, I shall err on the side of the Lord.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Who said you were going to "DIE"???

Certainly not Jesus:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Paul said:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

If you'll view death as an "individual rapture", you'll see what Jesus was "really saying".


"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye", we're absent from the body and present with the Lord.

"No death".