Did Jesus cease being God's Son on the Cross?

[Charlie24]

Scripture please.

Rom. 8:2

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

This is the Law that God created before the foundation of the world that man can escape his sin.

God abides by this Law with His promises of salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

Scripture please.

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 

[Aaron]

On what basis though is the Father able to redeem us, as there must still be a basis for salvation, to allow Him to stay Holy while forgiving sinners?

God is love.

And the plan of Redemption is the very expression of love. One must lay down his life for his friends. There is no greater love than that, and God can love His beloved no less.

But don't interpret that to mean that God's holiness was somehow in jeopardy if He had made some other way. God didn't allow the cup to pass from His Son not because it was impossible to do so. God didn't allow the cup to pass because it was His will that perfect love be made manifest to His vessels of mercy.

 

[kyredneck]

@Charlie24 @JesusFan @Silverhair

This is the passage I think that you should be using:

Hebrews Chapter 9

22​	And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

My problem with your attitudes is the same I've witnessed from a couple of others concerning the doctrine of assurance:

"I have believed the gospel and God has no choice. He absolutely must save me".

There's something very wrong (and unbecoming) with the creature dictating what its creator can and cannot do.

 

[kyredneck]

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

This coming from the guy who caught flak for suggesting(?) folks can be saved without ever hearing the gospel.

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24 @JesusFan @Silverhair

This is the passage I think that you should be using:

Hebrews Chapter 9

22​	And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

My problem with your attitudes is the same I've witnessed from a couple of others concerning the doctrine of assurance:

"I have believed the gospel and God has no choice. He absolutely must save me".

There's something very wrong (and unbecoming) with the creature dictating what its creator can and cannot do.

This coming from the guy who caught flak for suggesting(?) folks can be saved without ever hearing the gospel.

If you can't see the free will in Scripture, then believe your Election.

That's the way it's going to be anyway.

The good news is that both can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

But that is the only way, and if you disagree, then we have a very serious disagreement on the basics of eternal life.

 

[JonC]

Christ's death is the basis of the forgiveness of sin.

[Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[Heb 9:22 KJV] 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

I still say it is Christ Himself. The "blood shed" is the action, but it is His willing sacrifice.

Perhaps we are saying the same thing differently. I dont know.

 

[kyredneck]

If you can't see the free will in Scripture, then believe your Election.

That's the way it's going to be anyway.

The good news is that both can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

But that is the only way, and if you disagree, then we have a very serious disagreement on the basics of eternal life.

??? Are you reading the same thread that I am? You have 'Calvinism' on the brain, this thread has zilch to do with that.

 

[JonC]

On what basis though is the Father able to redeem us, as there must still be a basis for salvation, to allow Him to stay Holy while forgiving sinners?

The Father does not face inability, so your question is not valid.

The basis that mankind is forgiven is Christ's sacrifice.

The basis that we are forgiven repentance - turning from sin and to Christ.

Scripture tells us that the Father forgives based on repentance. This is further explained as turning from ourselves and to Him in faith.

Ultimately our salvation is dependent on recreation (dying to sin and being made alive in Christ, being made a new creation in Christ, being born of the Spirit).


My point, however, was not to debate this but simply to point out that there are many Baotist churches that share my belief. Rather than trusting in reformed Roman Catholic doctrine many of us simply trust God's Word.

 

[JonC]

There are some great churches down there.

Attending church here was the highlight of our trip. It has been awhile since I've experienced such a spirit-filled service.

 

[Charlie24]

??? Are you reading the same thread that I am? You have 'Calvinism' on the brain, this thread has zilch to do with that.

Calvinism, or should I say the 5 points has everything to to do with assurance of salvation!

That is the conclusion to the 5 points, OSAS.

 

[kyredneck]

God is love.

1st John Chapter 4

9​	Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.
10​	Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

John Chapter 3

16​	For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[kyredneck]

Calvinism, or should I say the 5 points has everything to to do with assurance of salvation!

That is the conclusion to the 5 points, OSAS.

Again, are you on the same thread I'm on?

 

[Charlie24]

Again, are you on the same thread I'm on?

I replied to your post #84 on assurance. Are speaking of another assurance than that of salvation?

 

[kyredneck]

The basis that we are forgiven repentance - turning from sin and to Christ.

Romans Chapter 5

6​	For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
7​	For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die.
8​	But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9​	Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
10​	For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
11​	and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Ephesians Chapter 2

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),

 

[kyredneck]

I replied to your post #84 on assurance. Are speaking of another assurance than that of salvation?

<sigh> I mentioned attitudes concerning assurance to make a point, it's unbecoming of His saints to be dictating what He can and cannot do. Has zilch to do with Calvinism or the five points.

Is this your attitude concerning your assurance?

"I have believed the gospel and God has no choice. He absolutely must save me".

 

[Charlie24]

<sigh> I mentioned attitudes concerning assurance to make a point, it's unbecoming of His saints to be dictating what He can and cannot do. Has zilch to do with Calvinism or the five points.

Is this your attitude concerning your assurance?

"I have believed the gospel and God has no choice. He absolutely must save me".

This goes back to God's Law that He has decreed and enforces.

Any promise God makes to man is a promise He is obligated to fulfill.

I can see where Calvinism may not see it this way.

God is not a liar and He fulfills His promises.

We see salvation in completely different ways, K.

 

[kyredneck]

He is obligated

There's that tude again.

God does/has done whatsoever He pleases.

 

[Charlie24]

There's that tude again.

God does/has done whatsoever He pleases.

Yes, He can, as long as it doesn't change any of His promises or His already stated Word.

God cannot lie, so whether we interpret the Scripture correctly or not, God cannot be a liar by going back on anything He has said or promised.

What He has said an promised is often misunderstood by man, including all of us, but God knows the truth of it, and He will not be found a liar.

 

[JonC]

Romans Chapter 5

6​	For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
7​	For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die.
8​	But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9​	Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
10​	For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
11​	and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Ephesians Chapter 2

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),

Exactly.