Did Jesus cease being God's Son on the Cross?

[kyredneck]

God cannot lie, so whether we interpret the Scripture correctly or not, God cannot be a liar by going back on anything He has said or promised.

Considering all the previous promises/prophecies God had made concerning Israel, particularly Judah in this case, could He have done this, and not be a liar?

Exodus Chapter 32

9​	And Jehovah said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10​	now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

...or was He just joshin...

 

[Charlie24]

Considering all the previous promises/prophecies God had made concerning Israel, particularly Judah in this case, could He have done this, and not be a liar?

Exodus Chapter 32

9​	And Jehovah said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10​	now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

...or was He just joshin...

No, He wasn't joshin at all, Israel would have carried on with the saved minus the majority.

If that had happened it would have taken longer for the birth of Christ, or it seems it would have.

It wasn't that Moses stopped God from making a mistake, far from it, it was a test for Moses with God already knowing what Moses would say.

Although most scholars will not agree with this, I see it as a building block for Moses with the people.

 

[kyredneck]

It wasn't that Moses stopped God from making a mistake

A perfect type of Christ interceding for His people.

I see it as a building block for Moses with the people.

JFB:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
10. make of thee a great nation—Care must be taken not to suppose this language as betokening any change or vacillation in the divine purpose. The covenant made with the patriarchs had been ratified in the most solemn manner; it could not and never was intended that it should be broken. But the manner in which God spoke to Moses served two important purposes—it tended to develop the faith and intercessory patriotism of the Hebrew leader, and to excite the serious alarm of the people, that God would reject them and deprive them of the privileges they had fondly fancied were so secure.

 

[Aaron]

Perhaps we are saying the same thing differently. I dont know.

No, we're not. I'm saying it is Christ's death that atones.

 

[Charlie24]

A perfect type of Christ interceding for His people.



JFB:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
10. make of thee a great nation—Care must be taken not to suppose this language as betokening any change or vacillation in the divine purpose. The covenant made with the patriarchs had been ratified in the most solemn manner; it could not and never was intended that it should be broken. But the manner in which God spoke to Moses served two important purposes—it tended to develop the faith and intercessory patriotism of the Hebrew leader, and to excite the serious alarm of the people, that God would reject them and deprive them of the privileges they had fondly fancied were so secure.

I would agree with that and add that even though God didn't destroy them at that point, all but a handful did perish in the desert anyway.

God edified Moses before the people that day as a type of Savior, so I agree.

 

[kyredneck]

all but a handful did perish in the desert anyway.

Joshua and Caleb and their families entered in because of their belief.

God edified Moses before the people that day as a type of Savior

Shame, Moses and Aaron both entered not in because of their unbelief.

[add]

I've read estimates as high as 2.5 million made the exodus from the House of Bondage, but only a handful of those made it to the Land of Milk & Honey.

 

[Charlie24]

Joshua and Caleb and their families entered in because of their belief.



Shame, Moses and Aaron both entered not in because of their unbelief.

Aaron is in question, I don't believe he made it though.

But Moses definitely made it, remember he was on the Mt' of Transfiguration with Elijah and talked with Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

Aaron is in question, I don't believe he made it though.

And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12

But Moses definitely made it, remember he was on the Mt' of Transfiguration with Elijah and talked with Christ.

We're talking about His rest, not eternity above. The Promised Land is a type of the Sabbath Rest we as believers have here, now, NOT a type of heaven above.

 

[Charlie24]

And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12



We're talking about His rest, not eternity above. The Promised Land is a type of the Sabbath Rest we as believers have here, now, NOT a type of heaven above.

Well of course they didn't make it into the physical promised land, but for different reasons.

Aaron lacked the faith, and didn't make it physically or spiritually, his name is not mentioned with the other few that did make it.

Moses had the faith all along, but disobeyed God by striking the the Rock (that represented Christ) instead of speaking to it.

 

[kyredneck]

Aaron lacked the faith...Moses had the faith

NOT the scripture narrative. They both entered not in because of their unbelief.

 

[Charlie24]

NOT the scripture narrative. They both entered not in because of their unbelief.

Yes, that is said in Num. 20:12, but that is not the reason they entered not into the spiritual promised land.

Moses was barred from the physical promised land because he struck the rock (Christ) the second time in Rephidim.

The first time God told Moses to strike the Rock (Christ) as a symbol of His sacrifice on the Cross.

The Second time at Rephidim, God told Moses to speak to the Rock, but he struck it again in anger with the people.

That was a sin that God could not abide with, it represented Christ being struck (Crucified) again.

Christ as the Rock supplied them with water, a symbol of the Living Water in salvation for the people.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, that is said in Num. 20:12, but that is not the reason they entered not into the spiritual promised land.

The Exodus Motif is pregnant with types, but you'll never see them if you insert your own narrative.

Shame.

 

[Charlie24]

The Exodus Motif is pregnant with types, but you'll never see them if you insert your own narrative.

Shame.

Since we are opposites on God's plan of salvation for man, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[JonC]

No, we're not. I'm saying it is Christ's death that atones.

Ahhh....yes, I agree. We don't.

I thought you were just saying that Christ's blood was shed for the remission of sins, and that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (that it is in this way forgiveness is based on the blood Chriat shed for our sins).

Thank you for clarifying. While I do agree that Christ's blood was shed for our forgiveness and that Christ as the "last Adam" satisfied the demands of the Law on behalf of "the human family", I do not believe Calvinistic "atonement" is biblical.

So we dont agree at all.

Now, if you'd put an Atlanta Braves hat on your profile picture that'd be appreciated.

 

[kyredneck]

Since we are opposites on God's plan of salvation for man, I'll take that as a compliment.

The problem here is your stupid obsession with Calvinism, nothing more.

That's NOT a compliment.

 

[Charlie24]

The problem here is your stupid obsession with Calvinism, nothing more.

Not an obsession, just a totally different view of God's salvation.

 

[kyredneck]

Not an obsession, just a totally different view of God's salvation.

Whatever. Good night.

 

[Silverhair]

@Charlie24 @JesusFan @Silverhair

This is the passage I think that you should be using:

Hebrews Chapter 9

22​	And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

My problem with your attitudes is the same I've witnessed from a couple of others concerning the doctrine of assurance:

"I have believed the gospel and God has no choice. He absolutely must save me".

There's something very wrong (and unbecoming) with the creature dictating what its creator can and cannot do.

KY it would appear that you still have a hard time accepting the word of God.

Our sins are covered by Christ's death on the cross, well actually all man's sins have been covered.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

But while all our sins are covered we are only saved because of our faith in the risen Christ.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

God has set the condition for one's salvation which for some reason you just will not accept.
Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

So you see it is only through our faith in Christ Jesus that we have peace with God.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

So we that have freely trusted in the risen Christ have full assurance of our final salvation when we will be with Christ in heaven for eternity.

Those that think they were given faith have to wonder if what they believe is actually true as it could be just be what they hope is true.

 

[kyredneck]

KY it would appear that you still have a hard time accepting the word of God.

Silv, it would appear that you are still spewing your wearisome claptrap.

 

[Silverhair]

This coming from the guy who caught flak for suggesting(?) folks can be saved without ever hearing the gospel.

Who are you Oh man tell God what He can and cannot do.

Don't you believe that God is sovereign?

God can save whom He wants, when He wants, where He wants, and why He wants.

The obvious way we see is through hearing and responding to the gospel but I do not think anyone should be telling God what He can and can't do. That is way above my pay grade.