Vote to bar churches with women pastors fails again at SBC Annual Meeting

[Jerome]

Vote to bar churches with women pastors fails again at SBC Annual Meeting

"DALLAS (RNS) — For the second year in a row, a move to bar churches with women pastors from the nation’s largest Protestant denomination failed. A proposed amendment to the Southern Baptist Convention’s constitution, which would have kept any church that affirms, appoints or employs a woman 'as a pastor of any kind' from belonging to the SBC, got 60.74% of the vote Wednesday...[not] the two-thirds majority needed".

"SBC President Clint Pressley....said the debate on the amendment was a 'family discussion' and that Southern Baptists remain unified".

"Juan Sanchez of High Pointe Baptist Church in Austin, Texas, who brought the proposed amendment to the convention floor....also called the debate a family discussion rather than a conflict".

"A vote to abolish the SBC’s public policy arm, known as the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, also failed on Wednesday afternoon, with 42.84% of the messengers voting to abolish and 56.89% voting against abolishing. It was the fourth failed attempt to shut down or defund the ERLC".

"The 12.7 million-member denomination will hold its 2026 annual meeting in Orlando, Florida. It’s unclear whether the ban on women pastors or the ERLC will be up for debate in the future".

 

[Wesley Briggman]

(1Ti 2:11 KJV) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
(1Ti 2:12 KJV) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(1Ti 2:13 KJV) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(1Ti 2:14 KJV) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

For some reason, many people are unable to comprehend these verses.

"The 12.7 million-member denomination will hold its 2026 annual meeting in Orlando, Florida. It’s unclear whether the ban on women pastors or the ERLC will be up for debate in the future".

My motto: Neither condemn what God condones nor condone what God condemns.

 

[JonC]

I wonder how Peter's explanation of the "church age" fits into this:

And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy

 

[Charlie24]

I wonder how Peter's explanation of the "church age" fits into this:

And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy

If I remember correctly, Paul said for the women to be silent in the Church.

 

[Silverhair]

(1Ti 2:11 KJV) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
(1Ti 2:12 KJV) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(1Ti 2:13 KJV) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(1Ti 2:14 KJV) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

For some reason, many people are unable to comprehend these verses.

"The 12.7 million-member denomination will hold its 2026 annual meeting in Orlando, Florida. It’s unclear whether the ban on women pastors or the ERLC will be up for debate in the future".

My motto: Neither condemn what God condones nor condone what God condemns.

If you will note what Paul said

1Ti 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

He did not say God does not permit did he? Now I know this will unset some of the brothers and sisters on here but as I see it I would rather have a women that is called by God teach than a man that thinks he is called by God.

All we have to do is look at some of the men that have fallen in the last few years. Do you really think they were called of God?

"Paul's statements about women in submissive roles cannot be explained by the use of this hapax legomenon. It must be dealt with from a cultural perspective. God chose to reveal Himself into a specific cultural setting. Everything in that culture was/is not the will of God for all believers in all cultures in all ages (see Gordon Fee, Gospel and Spirit and How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth, pp. 83-86). The truth and power of the gospel radically changes human culture (i.e. slavery, male dominance). Arrogant, exploitive dominance is evil whether from men or women. There are two extremes to avoid: (1) women can do nothing (Ancient Near Eastern culture) and (2) women can do anything (modern western individualism). Believers (male and female) minister within their culture to maximize evangelism and discipleship, not personal agendas!" Utley

Women were in leadership roles in OT
Moses' sister, Miriam, called a prophetess (Exo_15:20-21, note Mic_6:4)
a married woman, Deborah, also a prophetess (cf. Jdg_4:4), led all the tribes (Jdg_4:4-5; Jdg_5:7)
Huldah was a prophetess whom King Josiah contacted to read and interpret the newly-found "Book of the Law" (2Ki_22:14; 2Ch_34:22-27)
Queen Esther, a godly woman, saved the Jews in Persia

Women in leadership roles in the NT
Elizabeth and Mary, godly women available to God (Luke 1-2)
Anna, a prophetess serving at the temple (Luk_2:36)
Lydia, believer and leader of a house church in Macedonia (Act_16:14, Act_16:40)
Philip's four virgin daughters were prophetesses (Act_21:8-9)
Phoebe, deaconess of church at Cenchrea (Rom_16:1)
Prisca (Priscilla), Paul's fellow-worker and teacher of Apollos (Act_18:26; Rom_16:3)
Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, Persis, Julia, Nereus' sister, several women co- workers of Paul (Rom_16:6-16)
Junia (KJV), possibly a woman apostle (Rom_16:7)
Euodia and Syntyche, co-workers with Paul (Php_4:2-3)Women were in leadership roles in OT
Moses' sister, Miriam, called a prophetess (Exo_15:20-21, note Mic_6:4)
a married woman, Deborah, also a prophetess (cf. Jdg_4:4), led all the tribes (Jdg_4:4-5; Jdg_5:7)
Huldah was a prophetess whom King Josiah contacted to read and interpret the newly-found "Book of the Law" (2Ki_22:14; 2Ch_34:22-27)
Queen Esther, a godly woman, saved the Jews in Persia

Women in leadership roles in the NT
Elizabeth and Mary, godly women available to God (Luke 1-2)
Anna, a prophetess serving at the temple (Luk_2:36)
Lydia, believer and leader of a house church in Macedonia (Act_16:14, Act_16:40)
Philip's four virgin daughters were prophetesses (Act_21:8-9)
Phoebe, deaconess of church at Cenchrea (Rom_16:1)
Prisca (Priscilla), Paul's fellow-worker and teacher of Apollos (Act_18:26; Rom_16:3)
Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, Persis, Julia, Nereus' sister, several women co- workers of Paul (Rom_16:6-16)
Junia (KJV), possibly a woman apostle (Rom_16:7)
Euodia and Syntyche, co-workers with Paul (Php_4:2-3)

Utley

 

[David Lamb]

If you will note what Paul said

1Ti 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

He did not say God does not permit did he? Now I know this will unset some of the brothers and sisters on here but as I see it I would rather have a women that is called by God teach than a man that thinks he is called by God.

All we have to do is look at some of the men that have fallen in the last few years. Do you really think they were called of God?

"Paul's statements about women in submissive roles cannot be explained by the use of this hapax legomenon. It must be dealt with from a cultural perspective. God chose to reveal Himself into a specific cultural setting. Everything in that culture was/is not the will of God for all believers in all cultures in all ages (see Gordon Fee, Gospel and Spirit and How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth, pp. 83-86). The truth and power of the gospel radically changes human culture (i.e. slavery, male dominance). Arrogant, exploitive dominance is evil whether from men or women. There are two extremes to avoid: (1) women can do nothing (Ancient Near Eastern culture) and (2) women can do anything (modern western individualism). Believers (male and female) minister within their culture to maximize evangelism and discipleship, not personal agendas!" Utley

Women were in leadership roles in OT
Moses' sister, Miriam, called a prophetess (Exo_15:20-21, note Mic_6:4)
a married woman, Deborah, also a prophetess (cf. Jdg_4:4), led all the tribes (Jdg_4:4-5; Jdg_5:7)
Huldah was a prophetess whom King Josiah contacted to read and interpret the newly-found "Book of the Law" (2Ki_22:14; 2Ch_34:22-27)
Queen Esther, a godly woman, saved the Jews in Persia

Women in leadership roles in the NT
Elizabeth and Mary, godly women available to God (Luke 1-2)

Yes they were, but they weren't women pastors.

Anna, a prophetess serving at the temple (Luk_2:36)

Not a woman pastor.

Lydia, believer and leader of a house church in Macedonia (Act_16:14, Act_16:40)

Acts 16:14 & 40 don't say that Lydia was the pastor of the church:

“Now a certain woman named Lydia heard [us]. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.” (Ac 16:14 NKJV)

“So they went out of the prison and entered the house of Lydia; and when they had seen the brethren, they encouraged them and departed.” (Ac 16:40 NKJV)

Philip's four virgin daughters were prophetesses (Act_21:8-9)

Once again, it doesn't say that they were pastors of a church.

Phoebe, deaconess of church at Cenchrea (Rom_16:1)

"Deaconess" could just as well be translated "servant". Indeed, some translations do say that she was a servant of the church. The word cannot be translated "pastor."

Prisca (Priscilla), Paul's fellow-worker and teacher of Apollos (Act_18:26; Rom_16:3)

A fellow-worker, not a pastor.

Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, Persis, Julia, Nereus' sister, several women co- workers of Paul (Rom_16:6-16)
Junia (KJV), possibly a woman apostle (Rom_16:7)

Again, Paul's fellow-workers, not pastors. Romans 16:7 says:

“Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” (Ro 16:7 NKJV)

"Of note among the apostles" means that the apostles counted them noteworthy, not that they themselves were apostles.

Euodia and Syntyche, co-workers with Paul (Php_4:2-3)

Again, fellow-workers, not pastors.

Women were in leadership roles in OT
Moses' sister, Miriam, called a prophetess (Exo_15:20-21, note Mic_6:4)
a married woman, Deborah, also a prophetess (cf. Jdg_4:4), led all the tribes (Jdg_4:4-5; Jdg_5:7)
Huldah was a prophetess whom King Josiah contacted to read and interpret the newly-found "Book of the Law" (2Ki_22:14; 2Ch_34:22-27)
Queen Esther, a godly woman, saved the Jews in Persia

None of these had a role comparable to that of pastor of a local church.

Women in leadership roles in the NT
Elizabeth and Mary, godly women available to God (Luke 1-2)
Anna, a prophetess serving at the temple (Luk_2:36)
Lydia, believer and leader of a house church in Macedonia (Act_16:14, Act_16:40)
Philip's four virgin daughters were prophetesses (Act_21:8-9)
Phoebe, deaconess of church at Cenchrea (Rom_16:1)
Prisca (Priscilla), Paul's fellow-worker and teacher of Apollos (Act_18:26; Rom_16:3)
Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, Persis, Julia, Nereus' sister, several women co- workers of Paul (Rom_16:6-16)
Junia (KJV), possibly a woman apostle (Rom_16:7)
Euodia and Syntyche, co-workers with Paul (Php_4:2-3)

(See above)

Utley

 

[Silverhair]

Yes they were, but they weren't women pastors.

Not a woman pastor.

Acts 16:14 & 40 don't say that Lydia was the pastor of the church:

“Now a certain woman named Lydia heard [us]. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.” (Ac 16:14 NKJV)

“So they went out of the prison and entered the house of Lydia; and when they had seen the brethren, they encouraged them and departed.” (Ac 16:40 NKJV)

Once again, it doesn't say that they were pastors of a church.

"Deaconess" could just as well be translated "servant". Indeed, some translations do say that she was a servant of the church. The word cannot be translated "pastor."

A fellow-worker, not a pastor.

Again, Paul's fellow-workers, not pastors. Romans 16:7 says:

“Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” (Ro 16:7 NKJV)

"Of note among the apostles" means that the apostles counted them noteworthy, not that they themselves were apostles.

Again, fellow-workers, not pastors.

None of these had a role comparable to that of pastor of a local church.

(See above)

@David Lamb You are denying what the bible shows us. The women were leaders and teachers in the early church.

By the logic you have presented then only a "pastor" can lead or teach. Does that mean that all of us that post on here are pastors? Note we do have women that post on this board.

Many of the posts on here are intended to teach other's what the word of God means.

I see Paul's comment in 1Ti 2:12 as his personal feeling, note the words "I do not allow". Also think about this, he condemned Eve for being deceived but says nothing about the fact that Adam chose to sin even though he was the one told directly not to eat of that tree.

So Adam was not deceived but clearly chose to sin or perhaps he was just a weak follower. Not what I would call the qualities you would want in a leader. So what we see in Adam and Eve are not leadership examples.

If God calls a women to lead and preach who are we to question Him.

And for those of the C/R view why would you question it as would it not be that God has determined for those women to preach and or lead?

 

[David Lamb]

@David Lamb You are denying what the bible shows us. The women were leaders and teachers in the early church.

By the logic you have presented then only a "pastor" can lead or teach. Does that mean that all of us that post on here are pastors? Note we do have women that post on this board.

That is not so. I only used the office of pastor because this thread has a title which concerns churches with women pastors. I didn't say that only the pastor can lead or teach. In Acts we read:

“So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.” (Ac 14:23 NKJV)

Now, whether those elders were men is a subject for another thread; this one is specifically about pastors.

 

[JonC]

If I remember correctly, Paul said for the women to be silent in the Church.

I know.

I was asking how Peter's application of that Old Testament passage to the church age applied.

You have Paul saying that women are to be silent and Peter saying they will prophesy.

I do not believe we can choose Paul over Peter, or Peter over Paul.

So....I was asking how God saying that women prophesy applies.

Some believe this was a cultural concession.

I believe Paul was speaking of authority. The reason is I believe the "remain silent" part applies to what Paul started off in the text stating (roles) and the fact that a "teacher" if the word refers to a position like a "rabbi" includes a sence of authority rather than how we typically view teachers.

 

[Silverhair]

That is not so. I only used the office of pastor because this thread has a title which concerns churches with women pastors. I didn't say that only the pastor can lead or teach. In Acts we read:

“So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.” (Ac 14:23 NKJV)

Now, whether those elders were men is a subject for another thread; this one is specifically about pastors.

I am curious as to why it seems that those of the C/R view that say God has determined all things have such a hard time accepting that God may have determined that some women are leaders/pastors?

 

[Reynolds]

@David Lamb You are denying what the bible shows us. The women were leaders and teachers in the early church.

By the logic you have presented then only a "pastor" can lead or teach. Does that mean that all of us that post on here are pastors? Note we do have women that post on this board.

Many of the posts on here are intended to teach other's what the word of God means.

I see Paul's comment in 1Ti 2:12 as his personal feeling, note the words "I do not allow". Also think about this, he condemned Eve for being deceived but says nothing about the fact that Adam chose to sin even though he was the one told directly not to eat of that tree.

So Adam was not deceived but clearly chose to sin or perhaps he was just a weak follower. Not what I would call the qualities you would want in a leader. So what we see in Adam and Eve are not leadership examples.

If God calls a women to lead and preach who are we to question Him.

And for those of the C/R view why would you question it as would it not be that God has determined for those women to preach and or lead?

Women did not teach men in the gathered assembly in the early church.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Women did not teach men in the gathered assembly in the early church.

They don’t care my brother. What is modern & convenient is the focus and so here you have a denomination having having to participate in the modernization. It’s a bad prescedent, and what’s next. Perhaps acceptance of homosexuality …then the SBC will have to worldly tastes & pronouncements. Just look at the UMC for a reality check!

 

[Charlie24]

I know.

I was asking how Peter's application of that Old Testament passage to the church age applied.

You have Paul saying that women are to be silent and Peter saying they will prophesy.

I do not believe we can choose Paul over Peter, or Peter over Paul.

So....I was asking how God saying that women prophesy applies.

Some believe this was a cultural concession.

I believe Paul was speaking of authority. The reason is I believe the "remain silent" part applies to what Paul started off in the text stating (roles) and the fact that a "teacher" if the word refers to a position like a "rabbi" includes a sence of authority rather than how we typically view teachers.

I think you're right, it's the way most look at it.

There were many women that played a huge role in the Church, but none of them were pastors. None met the qualifications given by Paul.

There's not even a hint in Scripture that a woman pastored a Church, even though they witnessed and brought many into the Church, even opened their homes to Church services as Lydia.

A pastor has spiritual authority in the Church, and that was forbidden for a woman over men by Paul, the master Church builder.

 

[Silverhair]

I think you're right, it's the way most look at it.

There were many women that played a huge role in the Church, but none of them were pastors. None met the qualifications given by Paul.

There's not even a hint in Scripture that a woman pastored a Church, even though they witnessed and brought many into the Church, even opened their homes to Church services as Lydia.

A pastor has spiritual authority in the Church, and that was forbidden for a woman over men by Paul, the master Church builder.

And look where that view has gotten us. We have to many men that have corrupted the church because those they were supposed shepherd would not question their authority.

I find it surprising that those that claim to follow Jesus then deny what Jesus set out to accomplish., equality.

What was it that Paul said

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

But then we are supposed to say that women are actually second class. Am I missing something here? Are we not all indwelt by the same Holy Spirit, is He not our guide?

I agree that those that do not know the bible should not be teaching the bible to others but we let men do it all the time why is that?

 

[Charlie24]

And look where that view has gotten us. We have to many men that have corrupted the church because those they were supposed shepherd would not question their authority.

I find it surprising that those that claim to follow Jesus then deny what Jesus set out to accomplish., equality.

What was it that Paul said

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

But then we are supposed to say that women are actually second class. Am I missing something here? Are we not all indwelt by the same Holy Spirit, is He not our guide?

I agree that those that do not know the bible should not be teaching the bible to others but we let men do it all the time why is that?

There's a huge difference in a woman witnessing to a man, and a woman pastoring to a man.

Paul never had in mind for a man to seek spiritual guidance from a woman.

This conversation always leads to some seeing this as the degrading of women. Far from it, the man has his place as does the woman in God's work.

 

[Silverhair]

There's a huge difference in a woman witnessing to a man, and a woman pastoring to a man.

Paul never had in mind for a man to seek spiritual guidance from a woman.

This conversation always leads to some seeing this as the degrading of women. Far from it, the man has his place as does the woman in God's work.

It would seem that I just trust God to puts the right people in the right place to advance His kingdom.

I will admit that I am just a bit jaded by all the so called male leaders that
1] do not know the bible
2] use the position to control the congregation that they are supposed to shepherd
3] have a questionable moral standard
and the list could go on.

 

[Zaatar71]

If you will note what Paul said

1Ti 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

He did not say God does not permit did he?

So, because he does not directly have a quote from Jesus...Are you saying this verse is not given by Inspiration of God?
Are you suggesting this is not authoritative?

 

[Silverhair]

So, because he does not directly have a quote from Jesus...Are you saying this verse is not given by Inspiration of God?
Are you suggesting this is not authoritative?

Read what Paul wrote.

I am saying it says what it says. But I do not read verses in isolation as some are want to do. The whole council of God says we are all equal in Christ so why does man then say we are not equal?

The one place that I have not seen men and women equal is in the abuse of the ones they are shepherding. That seems to be a male thing. So I am not so sure I would jump to defend the men only can preach the word of God.

Why do you oh man question what God does with His church?

 

[Zaatar71]

Read what Paul wrote.

I am saying it says what it says. But I do not read verses in isolation as some are want to do. The whole council of God says we are all equal in Christ so why does man then say we are not equal?

The one place that I have not seen men and women equal is in the abuse of the ones they are shepherding. That seems to be a male thing. So I am not so sure I would jump to defend the men only can preach the word of God.

Why do you oh man question what God does with His church?

WE are equal as far as our justification SH!

It does not mean in all things

 

[Silverhair]

WE are equal as far as our justification SH!

It does not mean in all things

How do you know? How do you know what is in the mind of God?