Note the mindless posts, they believe God is not the author sin, meaning God did not predestine our sin, but still have the unmitigated gall, the unabashed temerity to claim that is not open theism. I kid you not.
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Calvinists Do Not Hold To Open Theism
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
First, this poster claims I am an open theist, but now has no idea what open theism is! I kid you not.
Exhaustive determinism is closed theism, everything is predestined by God, nothing happens by chance, God causes directly or indirectly everything that occurs (whatsoever comes to pass) including our choice to sin. Those that say God does not predestine our sin, making us responsible for our sin, oppose closed theism, and are thus open theists.
Real Calvinists are not only Hyper Calvinists or 5 point Calvinists, or 4 point Calvinists, they include all three.
And many "real Calvinists" claim they are open theists because they claim God is not the author of sin.
No , as you are ONLY describing Hyper calvinist here, as majority of us
No real Calvinist holds to Open Theism, and the view that you see us holding here only is that of the Hyper Calvinists
God being open theistic has NOTHING to do with if He authored sin or not van, as since God already knew that the Fall would happen, already determined the Cross of Christ as remedy, God is not Open Theistic in His knowing
Please address what I post, rather than suggest false claims.
Open Theism is NOT referring to if God authored sin !
Gibberish posting, Calvinists, non-Hypers, who claim God is NOT the author of sin, believe God did not predestine our every sin, thus open theists.
Gibberish posting.
Calvinists, non-Hypers, claim God is NOT the author of sin, therefore God did not predestine our every sin, thus those Calvinists are open theists.
Calvinists, Arminians, and most Christians who are neither do not hold to open theism.
Some Calvinists do believe that God possesses natural knowledge, middle knowledge and free knowledge.
Depends....do you mean all things are not predestined or God did not predestined all things?
There is a huge difference.
I believe everything is predestined, but not that God predestined everything (unless you consider the act of creation along with divine omniscient to be God predestined everything...which would be a fair claim, although a bit philosophical).
But the question of Open Theism ultimately rests with divine omnicience and how that is defined.
Obviously scripture teaches all things are not predestined. Things happen by chance. In order for a choice to be a choice, alternate outcomes must be a reality. If only one outcome is possible, it reduces the meaning of choice to picking which of two doors that access the same room.
Here is what I mean -Obviously scripture teaches all things are not predestined. Things happen by chance. In order for a choice to be a choice, alternate outcomes must be a reality. If only one outcome is possible, it reduces the meaning of choice to picking which of two doors that access the same room.
IF God is omniscient then everything is predestined to occur as God knows it will occur.
This does not negate chance as God is not causing everything to happen (like God causing a bird to poop on your head).
That is everything being predestined, but it is different to say God decreed or predestined everything to occur as it does.
To deny that everything is predestined is to deny or redefine divine omnicience. Open theists redefine omniscience to mean "knowing all that can be known" with contingencies being unknowable even by God.
WE disagree. Your understanding of omniscience (God knows everything imaginable) differs from my understanding (Inherit omniscience where God can know everything, but only knows what He has chosen to know, and does not know what He has chosen not to know, such as some aspect of our forgiven sins.
Yes, it does differ. I do not believe that God chooses what to know or what not to know. In fact, I believe He knows when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on my head.
You would still be incorrect. IF God chooses not to know some things that does not mean those things will not occur as God could have known they would. You are simply saying God chooses ignorance about certain things.
Your position would be better if it were open theology. Then you could simply say some things are unknowable even to God.
Another problem with your argument is you assume events being predestined excludes contengiet events or absolutely free decisions. That is a false assumption.