Calvinists Do Not Hold To Open Theism

[Van]

Anyone who believes God is not the author of sin, believes at least some of our choices were not predestined, which defines Open Theism or Partially Open Theism.

Scripture is clear, God sets before people the choice of life or death, and begs us to choose life. Not the action of someone who knows we will choose death. If that were true, the verse would read, God sets before some life, and the rest death...

 

[Van]

Yes, it does differ. I do not believe that God chooses what to know or what not to know. In fact, I believe He knows when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on my head.

You would still be incorrect. IF God chooses not to know some things that does not mean those things will not occur as God could have known they would. You are simply saying God chooses ignorance about certain things.

Your position would be better if it were open theology. Then you could simply say some things are unknowable even to God.


Another problem with your argument is you assume events being predestined excludes contengiet events or absolutely free decisions. That is a false assumption.

As I said, we disagree. You seem to deny that things happen by chance. I accept those scriptures.

 

[JonC]

As I said, we disagree. You seem to deny that things happen by chance. I accept those scriptures.

This us what I mean....we MAY or MAY NOT disagree.

The reason I do not know is that you keep suggesting I deny that things happen by chance, which is absolutely not the case.

I believe that God is omniscient. You believe God chooses not to be omniscient.

That is our disagreement, not whether things happen by chance.

 

[Van]

This us what I mean....we MAY or MAY NOT disagree.

The reason I do not know is that you keep suggesting I deny that things happen by chance, which is absolutely not the case.

I believe that God is omniscient. You believe God chooses not to be omniscient.

That is our disagreement, not whether things happen by chance.

Again we disagree. You are using your definition of omniscience instead of addressing the modern viewpoint. If everything is predestined, then nothing happens by chance. We cannot agree because I use chance to mean not predetermined and you use chance some other way. Ditto for omniscience.

No need to continue

 

[Van]

Calvinism extols open theism because God did not cause, directly or indirectly our sin.

 

[JonC]

Again we disagree. You are using your definition of omniscience instead of addressing the modern viewpoint. If everything is predestined, then nothing happens by chance. We cannot agree because I use chance to mean not predetermined and you use chance some other way. Ditto for omniscience.

No need to continue

I am defining omniscience as "the state of knowing everything" (Oxford dictionary).

I am defining chance as "not pre-determined".

I am defining predestination as "destined to occur".

I define predetermined as "decided in advance"

An example , IF I flip a coin and God knows it will land heads up then the coin itself is predestined to land heads up even though it did so by chance and was not pre-determined to do so.

Where I view predetermined to be dependent on a cause, I view predestined as related to outcome regardless of cause.

 

[Van]

I am defining omniscience as "the state of knowing everything" (Oxford dictionary).

I am defining chance as "not pre-determined".

I am defining predestination as "destined to occur".

I define predetermined as "decided in advance"

An example , IF I flip a coin and God knows it will land heads up then the coin itself is predestined to land heads up even though it did so by chance and was not pre-determined to do so.

Where I view predetermined to be dependent on a cause, I view predestined as related to outcome regardless of cause.

Why are you continuing? You said:
"If God is omniscient then everything is predestined to occur as God knows it will occur."

If everything is predestined, nothing happens by chance.

If things happen by chance, then those things were not predestined.

 

[Van]

Calvinism extols open theism because God did not cause, directly or indirectly our sin.

Open theism or partially open theism is required by scripture,

God can and does choose to not remember our forgiven sins.

Things happen by chance.

God did not know the depth of Abraham's faith before he raised his knife over his son.

False doctrines are supported by false premises. If God knows everything imaginable, then He knows our forgiven sins, and scripture is nullified. If things happen by chance, they were not predestined, but if everything is predestined then scripture is nullified.

 

[JesusFan]

Obviously scripture teaches all things are not predestined. Things happen by chance. In order for a choice to be a choice, alternate outcomes must be a reality. If only one outcome is possible, it reduces the meaning of choice to picking which of two doors that access the same room.

God does not roll the dice

 

[JesusFan]

Yes, it does differ. I do not believe that God chooses what to know or what not to know. In fact, I believe He knows when a sparrow falls to the ground and the number of hairs on my head.

You would still be incorrect. IF God chooses not to know some things that does not mean those things will not occur as God could have known they would. You are simply saying God chooses ignorance about certain things.

Your position would be better if it were open theology. Then you could simply say some things are unknowable even to God.


Another problem with your argument is you assume events being predestined excludes contengiet events or absolutely free decisions. That is a false assumption.

There are no "absolute free decisions" made , as only God has that capacity available

 

[JesusFan]

Open theism or partially open theism is required by scripture,

God can and does choose to not remember our forgiven sins.

Things happen by chance.

God did not know the depth of Abraham's faith before he raised his knife over his son.

False doctrines are supported by false premises. If God knows everything imaginable, then He knows our forgiven sins, and scripture is nullified. If things happen by chance, they were not predestined, but if everything is predestined then scripture is nullified.

Open Theism is a heretical view regarding God omniscience

 

[Van]

God does not roll the dice

This poster denies scripture, as scripture says things happen by chance.

 

[Van]

Open Theism is a heretical view regarding God omniscience

This poster's doctrine disregards scripture, such as God can remember no more our sins.

 

[JesusFan]

This poster's doctrine disregards scripture, such as God can remember no more our sins.

God cannot wipe away His knowledge but can remember them and not hold them against us anymore now

 

[JesusFan]

This poster denies scripture, as scripture says things happen by chance.

Where does anything happen outside the control of God?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

What is open theism? | GotQuestions.org

What is open theism (neotheism, neo-theism)? What is open theology? Does God know the future? Is the future even knowable?

www.gotquestions.org

"“Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future."

I am a born-again believer, not a Calvinist. As such, I likewise reject "open theism".

(Rom 6:16 KJV) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
(Rom 6:17 KJV) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
(Rom 6:18 KJV) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

So much for the free-will of man in the spiritual realm.

 

[JonC]

There are no "absolute free decisions" made , as only God has that capacity available

God is actually as free as men when it comes to the will (the argument is man's will corresponds to man's nature....BUT throughout Scripture this is said of God).

 

[JonC]

Why are you continuing? You said:
"If God is omniscient then everything is predestined to occur as God knows it will occur."

If everything is predestined, nothing happens by chance.

If things happen by chance, then those things were not predestined.

You are reading into that statement what is not there.

I am saying God knows the outcome of chance. You say God is ignorant of these outcomes.

 

[Van]

God cannot wipe away His knowledge but can remember them and not hold them against us anymore now

Yet another denial of God's word. Not like believers in His word.

 

[Van]

You are reading into that statement what is not there.

I am saying God knows the outcome of chance. You say God is ignorant of these outcomes.

Sir, please stop with these posts. You say nothing happens by chance as everything is predestined. That view is in my opinion quite unbiblical.

There is no point in discuss further, as both believe they are right.