standingfirminChrist
New Member
In my 1873 Cambridge KJV, Hebrews 10:23 has the word 'hope' instead of 'faith'. Looked up the Greek and either can be used. Question is... which is correct?
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1873 Cambridge KJV
- Thread starter standingfirminChrist
- Start date
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Does your 1873 have "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. " like the newer KJVs or "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son does not have life" like the 1611?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
standingfirminChrist said:
Yeah, that was what I was talking about in the other thread... except my memory was wrong!!! That happens since I am getting older...:laugh:
Anyway, when I researched this a couple yrs ago, I remember looking at all the other times the Greek word was translated, and again, if my memory serves me correct (please, please double check) the translators translated that word into "hope" more than they did "faith"
But since they both mean the same thing in the Greek, either would be correct...
This is the problem of translating from one language to another...
But hey, without hope, we wouldn't have faith... and without faith we wouldn't have hope...
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I would also think 'hope' would be the correct word in Hebrews 10:23 anyway... for this reason:
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Hope would make more sense to me.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Hope would make more sense to me.
I just double checked and every time the word "elpis" is translated in the NT it is always translated as "hope" except in Hebrews 10:23...
I would say it should have been "hope" based on this finding.
BTW, the words at the end of the Strongs definition are not the definition... they are the words the KJV translators translated the Greek word into... So, we can't really say it MEANS faith.. just that the KJV translators translated it that way.
SFIC, Check out Matt. 23:24 (the strain gnat verse) and see how your 1873 compares...
When I go to church in a little bit, I will bring my 1873 home to compare along side you.... I wish e-sword had the 1873 module...
I would say it should have been "hope" based on this finding.
BTW, the words at the end of the Strongs definition are not the definition... they are the words the KJV translators translated the Greek word into... So, we can't really say it MEANS faith.. just that the KJV translators translated it that way.
SFIC, Check out Matt. 23:24 (the strain gnat verse) and see how your 1873 compares...
When I go to church in a little bit, I will bring my 1873 home to compare along side you.... I wish e-sword had the 1873 module...
standingfirminChrist said:I would also think 'hope' would be the correct word in Hebrews 10:23 anyway... for this reason:
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Hope would make more sense to me.
The problem with this is the fact that all other KJVs translate it as faith...
and if you are using it around KJVOs... it would cause a concern among many if you are reading and yours didn't read like theirs... Of course this would lead you into a good edifying discussion in which you can then teach them what the original language meant.
gotta run for now, be back this evening.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I would also think 'hope' would be the correct word in Hebrews 10:23 anyway... for this reason:
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Hope would make more sense to me.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Hope would make more sense to me.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Tim,
I would love to see that list of changes you have. Would love to compare.
I ran across a website that said there were changes, but the references they gave were all wrong according to my Bible.
I would love to see that list of changes you have. Would love to compare.
I ran across a website that said there were changes, but the references they gave were all wrong according to my Bible.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
If any have any knowledge of a list giving the word changes for this particlular edition... or have that list themselves
, please let me know.
, please let me know.
SFIC, the following is from a document I have... I believe it is from a post here on BB a few yrs back, but am not for sure...
Maybe someone will recognize it........
It has to do with the 1873...
"Some other differences in this 1873 and present-day
KJV edition compared to many other present KJV's
include "shamefastness" (1 Tim. 2:9) instead of
"shamefacedness," "They say" (John 11:34) instead
of "They said," "Is this" (Matt. 12:23) instead of
"Is not this," "flying" (Job 30:3) instead of "fleeing,"
"Canaan" (Acts 7:11) instead of "Chanaan," and "approved
to death" (1 Cor. 4:9) instead of "appointed to death."
Besides the present-day Oxford edition of the KJV, the
present-day Cambridge edition, and the present-day
American Bible Society edition, the KJV edition in
the OPEN BIBLE, the 1873 edition of the KJV edited by F. H. A. Scrivener is also available. The New Testament of this 1873 edition of the KJV was reprinted in THE NEW TESTAMENT OCTAPLA in the 1960's. It is presently available as the text of the ZONDERVAN KJV STUDY BIBLE (2002). This 1873 edition was also used as the basis for the new STRONGEST STRONG'S CONCORDANCE.
One difference is this 1873 edition is that Scrivener
restored a number of 1611 readings in place of some
changes that other editors had made. He presents
a list of those 1611 readings he restored in his book
about various editions of the KJV (AUTHORIZED EDITION
OF THE ENGLISH BIBLE (1611), PP. 215-237).
The 1873 KJV edition has "strain out" at Matthew 23:24
instead of "strain at" in most other KJV editions. It has
"profession of our hope" at Hebrew 10:23 instead of
"profession of our faith." At John 10:25, this edition has
"ye believe not" in agreement with several of the earlier
English Bibles while most present KJV's have "ye believed
not." At Acts 25:23, it has "were entered" instead of
"was entered." It has "thy mercy's sake" at Psalm 6:4
for "thy mercies' sake."
Since this 1873 edition was made after 1769, I wonder
whether some KJV-only advocates would accept it as
a true edition. Some KJV-only advocates do not seem
to be aware of its existence or of its availability today. "
I hope this helps...
I absolutely love mine.. Is yours just by itself, or is it in a parallel Bible.
I would like to have one by itself, but I can't find one.
Also, is it in paragraph form.. mine is.
Maybe someone will recognize it........
It has to do with the 1873...
"Some other differences in this 1873 and present-day
KJV edition compared to many other present KJV's
include "shamefastness" (1 Tim. 2:9) instead of
"shamefacedness," "They say" (John 11:34) instead
of "They said," "Is this" (Matt. 12:23) instead of
"Is not this," "flying" (Job 30:3) instead of "fleeing,"
"Canaan" (Acts 7:11) instead of "Chanaan," and "approved
to death" (1 Cor. 4:9) instead of "appointed to death."
Besides the present-day Oxford edition of the KJV, the
present-day Cambridge edition, and the present-day
American Bible Society edition, the KJV edition in
the OPEN BIBLE, the 1873 edition of the KJV edited by F. H. A. Scrivener is also available. The New Testament of this 1873 edition of the KJV was reprinted in THE NEW TESTAMENT OCTAPLA in the 1960's. It is presently available as the text of the ZONDERVAN KJV STUDY BIBLE (2002). This 1873 edition was also used as the basis for the new STRONGEST STRONG'S CONCORDANCE.
One difference is this 1873 edition is that Scrivener
restored a number of 1611 readings in place of some
changes that other editors had made. He presents
a list of those 1611 readings he restored in his book
about various editions of the KJV (AUTHORIZED EDITION
OF THE ENGLISH BIBLE (1611), PP. 215-237).
The 1873 KJV edition has "strain out" at Matthew 23:24
instead of "strain at" in most other KJV editions. It has
"profession of our hope" at Hebrew 10:23 instead of
"profession of our faith." At John 10:25, this edition has
"ye believe not" in agreement with several of the earlier
English Bibles while most present KJV's have "ye believed
not." At Acts 25:23, it has "were entered" instead of
"was entered." It has "thy mercy's sake" at Psalm 6:4
for "thy mercies' sake."
Since this 1873 edition was made after 1769, I wonder
whether some KJV-only advocates would accept it as
a true edition. Some KJV-only advocates do not seem
to be aware of its existence or of its availability today. "
I hope this helps...
I absolutely love mine.. Is yours just by itself, or is it in a parallel Bible.
I would like to have one by itself, but I can't find one.
Also, is it in paragraph form.. mine is.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
thanx, Tim. I will check out all these verses. Reckon I am going to have to do some legwork myself.
This one is in verse by verse... two columns with reference in the middle and wide margins for quick notes to be written. Also has several blank pages in back.
I ordered this one from Dave Hunt at www.thebereancall.org
This one is in verse by verse... two columns with reference in the middle and wide margins for quick notes to be written. Also has several blank pages in back.
I ordered this one from Dave Hunt at www.thebereancall.org
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
1 Timothy 2:9 "shame-fastedness"
John 11:34 "They say"
Matthew 12:23 "Is this"
Job 30:3 "flying"
Acts 7:11 "Canaan"
1 Corinthians 4:9 "appointed to death"
There is a difference in the words, for sure... except for 1 Corinthians 4:9.
It is not a parallel Bible, Tim. It is by itself. Looseleaf makes it awesome. I can take pages out and scan them to my pc if necessary.. I may do that to have a version of the 1873 on my PC.
John 11:34 "They say"
Matthew 12:23 "Is this"
Job 30:3 "flying"
Acts 7:11 "Canaan"
1 Corinthians 4:9 "appointed to death"
There is a difference in the words, for sure... except for 1 Corinthians 4:9.
It is not a parallel Bible, Tim. It is by itself. Looseleaf makes it awesome. I can take pages out and scan them to my pc if necessary.. I may do that to have a version of the 1873 on my PC.
http://blog.logos.com/archives/2006/03/in_search_of_the_king_james_ve_1.html
I found this interesting.... You may be able to find an electronic version...
I found this interesting.... You may be able to find an electronic version...
Read Hebrews 10:22-23 -- When we come near to God in the full assurance of faith, can we hold fast the confession of our faith because we have a hope?standingfirminChrist said:I would also think 'hope' would be the correct word in Hebrews 10:23 anyway... for this reason:
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Hope would make more sense to me.
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
Good question, Askjo.
It appears the word 'faith' in verse 22 (pistis) is not the same Greek word used in verse 23 (elpis).
It appears the word 'faith' in verse 22 (pistis) is not the same Greek word used in verse 23 (elpis).
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While this is, no doubt, all theologically true, it does still beg the question that has been raised.Askjo said:
I believe the question asked was which word is the correct rendering of Heb. 10:23? Is it "faith", as it apparently iis n the 1769, or is it "hope", as it apparently is in the 1873?
Two more questions - Wanna' guess which one is the 'copyrighted' version, issued under the royal crown copyright for the KJV?? I'll help everyone out, here. Why, both of course! :thumbsup:
Hmmmm!
Ain't the 'public domain', as it exists in the USA, great?
"Minor" changes are perfectly pemissible, by editors, of workd iin the 'public domain'.
Yep! Ya' don't particularly like a word?? Just change it! Just like in 'Wikipedia!' :thumbs:
Ed
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