1873 Cambridge KJV

[rsr]

SFIC, the following is from a document I have... I believe it is from a post here on BB a few yrs back, but am not for sure...
Maybe someone will recognize it........
It has to do with the 1873...

Speaking of Scrivener, his The Authorized Edition of the English Bible (1611): Its Subsequent Reprints and Modern Representatives is available free for download from Google Books at http://books.google.com/books?id=KW...oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

The referenced pages are available for viewing there.

 

[Askjo]

Look at "faith" and "hope" -- They have slightly different meanings. They are sometimes interchangable. The reason that the KJV translators' choice of words is to do with the phraseology of the passage in the English language is that Greek and Hebrew words are translated by different English words in various passages. These KJV translators considered the linguitic beauty of the passage and chose words which were lovely in sound.

 

[Askjo]

Speaking of Scrivener, his The Authorized Edition of the English Bible (1611): Its Subsequent Reprints and Modern Representatives is available free for download from Google Books at http://books.google.com/books?id=KW...oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

The referenced pages are available for viewing there.

Thank you for providing the link.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

In my 1873 Cambridge KJV, Hebrews 10:23 has the word 'hope' instead of 'faith'. Looked up the Greek and either can be used. Question is... which is correct?

Although the words are interchangeable in the Greek, the word "hope" seems more accurate in English. Once a person believes in faith upon the Lord Jesus Christ they are given the hope of eternal life, which as Scripture shows will not be taken away. To "hold fast to the profession of our faith" makes it sound just a bit like there is some works involved in order to maintain one's salvation. Keep holding onto faith and don't let it waver, or else. To "hold fast to the profession of our hope" sounds more like we are holding onto what God has promised irrevocably through salvation in Christ. We know that we have had faith in the One who gives us that eternal hope.

 

[Deacon]

In my 1873 Cambridge KJV, Hebrews 10:23 has the word 'hope' instead of 'faith'. Looked up the Greek and either can be used. Question is... which is correct?

The Preface of the 1873 Cambridge Paragraph Bible is rich with information.

Here is a list of the appendices in the Introduction
The answer to your question is in there!

APPENDIX A.—List of passages in which this Edition departs from the Text of 1611.
APPENDIX B.—The two Issues of the Bible of 1611 compared.
APPENDIX C.—List of passages in which the Readings of the Edition of the Authorized Bible of 1611 have been restored in the present volume.
APPENDIX D.—Blayney’s Report to the Rev. the Vice-Chancellor, and the other Delegates of the Clarendon Press.

APPENDIX E.—The Greek Text adopted by the Translators of the Authorized Version of the New Testament.

1. Passages in which the text of the Authorized Version differs from those of Stephens (1550) and of Beza (1589) jointly.

The variation in Heb. x. 23 “faith” for “hope” is not included, since it is a mere oversight of our Translators. (Tregelles’ Horne, Vol. IV. p. 227, note).

Rob

 

[Ed Edwards]

Heb 10:23 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
And washed in our bodies with pure water,
let vs keepe the profession of our hope, without wauering,
(for he is faithfull that promised)

 

[tinytim]

Look at "faith" and "hope" -- They have slightly different meanings. They are sometimes interchangable. The reason that the KJV translators' choice of words is to do with the phraseology of the passage in the English language is that Greek and Hebrew words are translated by different English words in various passages. These KJV translators considered the linguitic beauty of the passage and chose words which were lovely in sound.

Surely you are not saying they chose the word simply because it "sounded" better to the ear...
That would be tickling the ears... and I don't think they were false prophets...

I don't care how a word sounds... I care whether it is the right word....

Please clarify, because I know you don't mean how that sounded.. and you wouldn't want others that are new around here to misunderstand you.

 

[Logos1560]

If any have any knowledge of a list giving the word changes for this particlular edition... or have that list themselves
, please let me know.

This 1873 and present KJV edition has "strain out" at Matthew 23:24 instead of "strain at." It has "profession of our hope" at Hebrews 10:23 instead of "profession of our faith." At John 10:25, this 1873 edition has "ye believe not" in agreement with several of the earlier English Bibles while most present KJV's have "ye believed not." At Acts 25:23, it has "were entered" in agreement with several earlier English Bibles while most KJV's have "was entered" following the Bishops' Bible. This 1873 edition has "thy mercy's sake" (Psalm 6:4, 31:16, 44:26) for the Oxford edition's "thy mercies' sake," “fathers‘ house“ for “father‘s house“ (1 Chron. 7:2, Ezra 2:59, Neh. 7:61), “heart’s lust” for “hearts’ lust” (Ps. 81:12), “Adder‘s poison“ for “adders‘ poison“ (Ps. 140:3), “fools‘ back” for “fool‘s back“ (Prov. 26:3), “merchant’s ships” for “merchants’ ships” (Prov. 31:14), “priests‘” for “priest’s” (Ezek. 44:30), “potter’s clay” for “potters’ clay” (Dan. 2:41), and “oaths’ sake” for “oath’s sake” (Matt. 14:9, Mark 6:26). It has “mine hands” for “my hands” (Isa. 65:2) and “mine hand” for “my hand” (Jer. 25:15, Ezek. 6:14). It has “thine hand” for “thy hand” (Isa. 64:8).


The text of this KJV edition is more in agreement with the 1611 edition than are most other present KJV editions. Scrivener presented a list of the places in his 1873 edition that he restored 1611 readings (Authorized Edition, pp. 215-237). The text of this 1873 Cambridge edition as printed in some present Zondervan KJV's have a few of the old 1611 spellings that Scrivener kept updated to that in other KJV editions.

The Old Testament of this edition has “you“ for “ye“ (Gen. 9:4), “Girgashite“ for “Girgasite“ (Gen. 10:16), “towards“ for “toward“ (Gen. 15:5), “this thing“ for “this thing also“ (Gen. 19:21), “lift“ for “lifted“ (Gen. 22:4), “amongst“ for “among“ (Gen. 23:10), “to him“ for “unto him“ (Gen. 25:33), “Philistims“ for “Philistines“ (Gen. 26:1), "hand” for “hands” (Gen. 39:1), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Gen. 41:38), “drunk“ for “drank“ (Gen. 43:34), “any man” for “any men” (Gen. 47:6), “Haste you“ for “Haste ye“ (Gen. 45:9), “And you“ for “And ye“ (Gen. 45:13), “you did“ for “ye did“ (Exod. 10:11), “consecrations“ for “consecration“ (Exod. 29:26), “clothes“ for “cloths“ (Exod. 31:10), “stript“ for “stripped“ (Exod. 33:6), “manner fat“ for “manner of fat“ (Lev. 7:23), “nor scales“ for “and scales“ (Lev. 11:10), “were“ for “are“ (Lev. 25:23), “river side“ for “river‘s side“ (Num. 24:6), “begun“ for “began“ (Num. 25:1), “thy hand“ for “thine hand“ (Deut. 2:24), “thy heart“ for “thine heart“ (Deut. 15:7), “thy oil“ for “thine oil“ (Deut. 18:4), “all lost thing“ for “all lost things“ (Deut. 22:3), “noondays“ for “noonday“ (Deut. 28:29), “even the Lord” for “of the Lord” (Josh. 3:11), “or Sheba“ for “and Sheba“ (Josh. 19:2), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Jud. 3:10), “a hammer“ for “an hammer“ (Jud. 4:21), “he went” for “she went” (Ruth 3:15), “girt“ for “girded“ (1 Sam. 2:4), “my heart“ for “mine heart“ (1 Sam. 2:35), “in the fields” for “in the field” (1 Sam. 20:5), “wrapt“ for “wrapped“ (1 Sam. 21:9), “rose“ for “arose“ (1 Sam. 24:8), “a hill“ for “an hill“ (1 Sam. 26:13), “thy word“ for “thy words“ (1 Kings 3:12), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (1 Kings 8:56), “flotes“ for “floats“ (1 Kings 5:9), “son” for “sons” (1 Kings 13:11), “leese“ for “lose“ (1 Kings 18:5), “a horse “ for “an horse“ (1 Kings 20:20), “neesed“ for “sneezed“ (2 Kings 4:35), “kab“ for “cab“ (2 Kings 6:25), “to give to him“ for “to give him“ (2 Kings 8:19), “Geshan“ for “Gesham“ (1 Chron. 2:47), “Shimron“ for “Shimrom“ (1 Chron. 7:2), “men of might” for “valiant men of might” (1 Chron. 7:5), “son“ for “sons“ (1 Chron. 7:35), “Michah“ for “Micah“ (1 Chron. 23:20), “and laid” for “and they laid” (2 Chron. 29:23), “sin“ for “sins“ (2 Chron. 33:19), “and gold” for “and the gold” (Ezra 7:18), “built“ for “builded“ (Neh. 3:10, “cruddled“ for “curdled“ (Job 10:10), “sent“ for “scent“ (Job 14:9), “flying” for “fleeing” (Job 30:3), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (Ps. 2:4), “whiles” for “while” (Ps. 49:18), “holy Spirit“ for “holy spirit“ (Ps. 51:11), “Zion“ for “Sion“ (Ps. 65:1), “stablish“ for “establish“ (Ps. 89:4), “snare” for “snares” (Ps. 141:9), “vapour” for “vapors” (Ps. 148:8), “beareth“ for “bear“ (Song of Solomon 4:2), “mixt“ for “mixed“ (Isa. 1:22), “Get you” for “Get you” (Isa. 30:11), “burnt“ for “burned“ (Jer. 1:16), “nor daughters” for “or daughters” (Jer. 16:2), “sith“ for “since“ (Jer. 23:38), “afterwards” for “afterward” (Jer. 34:11), “word which“ for “word that“ (Jer. 40:1), “utter court” for “outer court” (Ezek. 10:5), “cropt“ for “cropped“ (Ezek. 17:4), “And the word” for “The word” (Ezek. 18:1), “ebeny“ for “ebony“ (Ezek. 27:15), “astrologians“ for “astrologers“ (Dan. 2:27), “a whirlwind” for “the whirlwind” (Hos. 13:3), “ript“ for “ripped“ (Hos. 13:16), “Kerioth“ for “Kirioth“ (Amos 2:2), “flieth” for “fleeth” (Nah. 3:16), and “Lord GOD“ for “LORD God“ (Hab. 3:19).

In the New Testament, this 1873 and present KJV edition has “but will” for “but he will” (Matt. 3:12), “Spirit“ for “spirit“ (Matt. 4:1), “a hungred“ for “an hungred“ (Matt. 4:2), “out the devils“ for “out devils“ (Matt. 9:34), “Is this“ for “Is not this“ (Matt. 12:23), “had not root” for “had no root” (Matt. 13:6), “a hymn“ for “an hymn“ (Matt. 26:30), “ought“ for “owed“ (Luke 7:41), “he said“ for “he had said“ (Luke 8:8), “to my Lord“ for “unto my Lord“ (Luke 20:42), “They say” for “They said” (John 11:34), “Canaan“ for “Chanaan“ (Acts 7:11, 13:19), “house“ for “housetop“ (Acts 10:9), “law of the husband“ for “law of her husband“ (Rom. 7:2), “approved to death” for “appointed to death” (1 Cor. 4:9), “hand“ for “hands“ (2 Cor. 5:1), “think you“ for “think ye“ (2 Cor. 12:19), “passed“ for “past“ (Eph. 2:11), “shamefastness” for “shamefacedness” (1 Tim. 2:9), “or by our epistle“ for “or our epistle“ (1 Thess. 2:15), “which doeth“ for “that doeth“ (1 John 2:29), “precious stone” for “precious stones” (Rev. 17:4), “sailers“ for “sailors“ (Rev. 18:17), “dipt” for “dipped” (Rev. 19:13), and several others.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Thanx, Logos.

 

[EdSutton]

In my 1873 Cambridge KJV, Hebrews 10:23 has the word 'hope' instead of 'faith'. Looked up the Greek and either can be used. Question is... which is correct?

Read Hebrews 10:22-23 -- When we come near to God in the full assurance of faith, can we hold fast the confession of our faith because we have a hope?

While this is, no doubt, all theologically true, it does still beg the question that has been raised.

I believe the question asked was which word is the correct rendering of Heb. 10:23? Is it "faith", as it apparently iis (sic) n (sic) the 1769, or is it "hope", as it apparently is in the 1873?

Look at "faith" and "hope" -- They have slightly different meanings. They are sometimes interchangable. The reason that the KJV translators' choice of words is to do with the phraseology of the passage in the English language is that Greek and Hebrew words are translated by different English words in various passages. These KJV translators considered the linguitic beauty of the passage and chose words which were lovely in sound.

Heb 10:23 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
And washed in our bodies with pure water, let vs keepe the profession of our hope, without wauering, (for he is faithfull that promised)

(quoting from)"APPENDIX E.—The Greek Text adopted by the Translators of the Authorized Version of the New Testament.

1. Passages in which the text of the Authorized Version differs from those of Stephens (1550) and of Beza (1589) jointly.

The variation in Heb. x. 23 “faith” for “hope” is not included, since it is a mere oversight of our Translators. (Tregelles’ Horne, Vol. IV. p. 227, note)."

Surely you are not saying they chose the word simply because it "sounded" better to the ear...
That would be tickling the ears... and I don't think they were false prophets...

I don't care how a word sounds... I care whether it is the right word....

Obviously, the question standingfirminChrist ask is still being begged, by some.

I agree with tinytim.

Tregelles, who was certainly no KJV or TR advocate, by any stretch, might well have been expected to make such an argument, I guess, but I find it inexplicable that some of your friendly neighborhood KJVO types, have not challenged this.

It is hardly an 'oversight' when "pistis" is 'read' into the place of "elpis", IMO. Apparently the Geneva Bible translators did not make this 'oversight', nor was it made by the Tyndale, or the Douay-Rheims, and it is not found in any Greek text, as far as I've been able to find, at a quick glance. In fact, Alford noted that this word was rendered as "hope" in "all the English versions prior to 1611". ('all' is not my emboldenment, FTR)

It is amazing that the original question by the OP, has still not been answered by any others of KJVO persuasion, and that given that the OP is basically a very strong KJV advocate, iof not KJVO, himself.

I do wonder, however, why some individuals such as Benjamin Blayney and F. H. A. Scrivener are allowed a "free pass" in their editing and revisions of the KJV, by some others, who then proceed to give such vociferous opposition to those today, who are doing roughly the same thing as the above mentioned two individuals? Could is just be that it is an etheral 'idea', as opposed to factual evidence, that is being supported?

Can anyone say "double standard"?

Ed

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ed,

While I am KJV preferred, I do read other versions from time to time. I have 62 versions on my laptop.

My question in the OP is a valid question... and as you have noted, it has yet to be answered... "hope?" or "faith?"

And still I wait.

 

[Rippon]

Obviously, the question standingfirminChrist asked is still being begged, by some.





It is hardly an 'oversight' when "pistis" is 'read' into the place of "elpis", IMO. Apparently the Geneva Bible translators did not make this 'oversight', nor was it made by the Tyndale, or the Douay-Rheims, and it is not found in any Greek text, as far as I've been able to find, at a quick glance. In fact, Alford noted that this word was rendered as "hope" in "all the English versions prior to 1611". ('all' is not my emboldenment, FTR)

It is amazing that the original question by the OP, has still not been answered by any others of KJVO persuasion, and that given that the OP is basically a very strong KJV advocate, if not KJVO, himself.

I do wonder, however, why some individuals such as Benjamin Blayney and F. H. A. Scrivener are allowed a "free pass" in their editing and revisions of the KJV, by some others, who then proceed to give such vociferous opposition to those today, who are doing roughly the same thing as the above mentioned two individuals?

Can anyone say "double standard"?

Ed

Double standard , indeed !

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Surely you are not saying they chose the word simply because it "sounded" better to the ear...
That would be tickling the ears... and I don't think they were false prophets...

I don't care how a word sounds... I care whether it is the right word....

Please clarify, because I know you don't mean how that sounded.. and you wouldn't want others that are new around here to misunderstand you.

Especially since "faith" and "hope" as spoken in 1611 England sound, from all indication, sound like little like the same words spoken in the United States in 2008.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

What's yer take on it, Roger?

If it was supposed to be 'faith', should it not have been 'pistis' to be consistent with verse 22? or is 'hope' the most likely to be correct?

 

[EdSutton]

Ed,

While I am KJV preferred, I do read other versions from time to time. I have 62 versions on my laptop.

My question in the OP is a valid question... and as you have noted, it has yet to be answered... "hope?" or "faith?"

And still I wait.

I may have not worded this as clearly as I should. I did not intend to imply that you were maybe a "closet" version of KJVO (which I am well aware that you are certianly not), but rather were KJV preferred, as you yourself just said, and IMO, more strongly KJV preferred than several others who are likewise KJV preferred, on the BB.

Personally, I prefer the NKJV, for a number of reasons, but that is beside the point, here.

The word should be translated "hope" as you have surmised. IMO, the 1873 "gets it right", here. But it does appear to be an editorial difference from the 1769. Perhaps maybe you (or definitely Ed Edwards) can tell us how the 1611 edition reads, for I simply have no clue, here.

But I do know, given my own preference for hard copies, if I had 62 versions on my own 'laptop', and especially if two of them were The Great Bible and a pulpit edition of the Bishop's Bible, I would not even be able to move to get out of my seat, without help.

Ed

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

What's yer take on it, Roger?

If it was supposed to be 'faith', should it not have been 'pistis' to be consistent with verse 22? or is 'hope' the most likely to be correct?

I am not a Greek scholar by any means, but I probably would have gone with "hope" to show the difference in the Greek words.

This seems to be the choice of virtually all other versions. I think the 1873 was wise to make the change.

BTW, here is the 1611 text, or at least the 1611 text in e-sword.

Heb 10:22 Let vs drawe neere with a true heart in full assurance of faith, hauing our hearts sprinkled from an euill conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let vs hold fast the profession of our faith without wauering (for he is faithfull that promised)

 

[Logos1560]

In Hebrews 10:23, James D. Price noted that the Textus Receptus, the Majority Text, and all Greek manuscripts have the Greek word for "hope" while the KJV has "faith." As already mentioned, Scrivener thought that "faith" for "hope" at Hebrews 10:23 was a "mere oversight of our [KJV] translators" (The Authorized Edition, p. 247). David Norton suggested that “faith” “could be a printer’s error because of ‘faithful’ later in the verse” (Textual History of the KJB, p. 351).

Tyndale's New Testament, Coverdale's Bible, Matthew's Bible, Coverdale's Duoglott, the Great Bible, Whittingham's New Testament, the Geneva Bible, and the Bishops' Bible all translated this word accurately as "hope" as do Jay Green's Interlinear and Berry's Interlinear. According to the first rule given the translators, what “truth of the original” demanded that this rendering in the Bishops’ and other earlier English Bibles be altered? Luther’s 1534 German Bible rendered this word as “hoffnung” [hope]. The 1657 English translation of the authorized Dutch Bible also has “hope.“ This same Greek word was translated "hope" by the KJV translators every other time it is found in the TR (53 times).


Young's Analytical Concordance defined elpis at Hebrews 10:23 as "hope" (p. 324). The Ryrie Study Bible has this note for this verse: “Lit. the confession of our hope” (p. 1865). The Companion Bible has this note: “our faith=the hope, Gr. elpis” (p. 1838). In his commentary on Hebrews, Oliver B. Greene noted about this verse that "The Greek reads, 'Let us hold fast the confession of our hope'" (p. 406). Concerning this verse, Ralph Earle observed: "The Greek word is not pistis, ' faith,' but elpis, 'hope'" (Word Meanings, p. 427).


Some have noted a parallel or comparison between the three of 1 Corinthians 13:13 [faith, hope, and love] to the same three in Hebrews 10:22-24 [faith, v. 22; hope, v. 23; love, v. 24]. While present in the Greek, the parallel is missing in the KJV. In 1659, Robert Gell wrote: "And let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, (the [KJV] translators turn it [faith] which should be turn'd [hope,] according to all Greek copies, I have yet seen. Beside, the apostle in verses 22, 23, 24 hath the three theological graces, in their order)" (Essay, p. 525). Kutilek cited where Henry Alford (1810-1871) observed: “The word ’faith,’ given here by the A. V., instead of hope--breaking up the beautiful triad of vv. 22, 23, 24,--faith, hope, love,--was a mere mistake, hope being the original, without any variety of reading” (Beacham, One Bible Only, p. 42).

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It is interesting that the word 'elpis' is found in 48 verses and only in Hebrews 10:23 did the 1769 translators translate it as 'faith'. All other instances record it as being 'hope.'

Thanx again, Logos!:thumbs: