An Open Bible and an Open Mind

[Crabtownboy]

I am going through old records and compiling them into an archive. During this I ran across papers signed by Penrose St. Amant from 1975. Being curious I conducted an Internet search and ran across the following:

1. He was a dean at Southern in Louisville for ten years.
2. He was the president of the Baptist Seminary in Ruschlikon, Switzerland.
3. He was a noted historian.
......and more.

http://books.google.cz/books?id=SPI...page&q="Penrose St. Amant" ruschlikon&f=false

The article begins on page 118 and continues to 134

His quote An open Bible and an open mind that he used whenever talking about Baptists is discussed in the chapter.

 

[sag38]

And, I did a little reading of the document. Thank goodness his types are gone, for the most part, from the SBC. I can certainly see why a bleeding heart like Crabby would like him.

 

[Crabtownboy]

And, I did a little reading of the document. Thank goodness his types are gone, for the most part, from the SBC. I can certainly see why a bleeding heart like Crabby would like him.

Would you rather have a closed Bible and a closed mine?

 

[Tom Butler]

The article certainly did stir memories of the battle which raged during the Conservative Resurgence, both on the intellectual level and the practical level.

 

[mont974x4]

Would you rather have a closed Bible and a closed mine?

The implication of this statement, and the OP, is that you think (like most liberals) that you must have a closed mind if you reject liberal philosophies (whether political or religious). Nobody here is likely to be against an open Bible or an open mind. The only reason for you to make the statement you just made is to create conflict, even if you have to manufacture one to start with.


I would like to suggest an alternative ideal. This is based on my own struggle. We should desire to be teachable, while also not being easily swayed. This means I desire to continue learning (I do and I suspect most of us here do). It also means that if you desire to convince me I have been wrong and you are right then be prepared to work for it. I understand this can look like pride in practice, and that is unfortunate. However, it is not pride because it isn't about me being right. It is about desiring, above all else, to be sure my doctrinal stances and ideals Glorify God, exalt Christ, and are faithful to the Word.

Can that be summed up in the idea presented in "An opened Bible and an opened mind"? Sure, however it depends on the person. We are all human and our biases are strong. Even with an open mind and an open Bible we will naturally favor one over the other. So, I would lean heavy on the Bible and view all things competing for space in my mind through the lens of Scripture. Others lean heavy on experience and other things that feed the mind.

I guess what I am saying is, go ahead and have an open mind....but make sure you have a darn good filter.

 

[Revmitchell]

Liberals think they are slick. But they're not.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I would like to suggest an alternative ideal. This is based on my own struggle. We should desire to be teachable, while also not being easily swayed. This means I desire to continue learning (I do and I suspect most of us here do). It also means that if you desire to convince me I have been wrong and you are right then be prepared to work for it. I understand this can look like pride in practice, and that is unfortunate. However, it is not pride because it isn't about me being right. It is about desiring, above all else, to be sure my doctrinal stances and ideals Glorify God, exalt Christ, and are faithful to the Word.

Excellent!:thumbsup:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Would you rather have a closed Bible and a closed mine?

:laugh:



This is awesome. His entire intellectual prowess gathered into one simple statement. Nice job, C.T.Boy. Your well-thought-out and perfectly articulated arguments sure do help your cause.

 

[Arbo]

Would you rather have a closed Bible and a closed mine?

That's like asking someone when he stopped beating his wife.

 

[quantumfaith]

And, I did a little reading of the document. Thank goodness his types are gone, for the most part, from the SBC. I can certainly see why a bleeding heart like Crabby would like him.

So are we also "poo-pooing" Frank Stagg? I rather enjoyed and appreciated the article.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The implication of this statement, and the OP, is that you think (like most liberals) that you must have a closed mind if you reject liberal philosophies (whether political or religious). Nobody here is likely to be against an open Bible or an open mind. The only reason for you to make the statement you just made is to create conflict, even if you have to manufacture one to start with.

The reason I said would you prefer a closed Bible and a closed mind is that is the alternative to an open Bible and an open mind.

It does not matter if a person is a liberal, moderate or fundamentalists they should always have an open Bible and an open mind. If their mind is closed, then there is no way for God to teach them new lessons and new truths. With a closed mind there is no way to mature in their faith.

I would like to suggest an alternative ideal. This is based on my own struggle. We should desire to be teachable, while also not being easily swayed. This means I desire to continue learning (I do and I suspect most of us here do). It also means that if you desire to convince me I have been wrong and you are right then be prepared to work for it. I understand this can look like pride in practice, and that is unfortunate. However, it is not pride because it isn't about me being right. It is about desiring, above all else, to be sure my doctrinal stances and ideals Glorify God, exalt Christ, and are faithful to the Word.

I agree.

Can that be summed up in the idea presented in "An opened Bible and an opened mind"? Sure, however it depends on the person. We are all human and our biases are strong. Even with an open mind and an open Bible we will naturally favor one over the other. So, I would lean heavy on the Bible and view all things competing for space in my mind through the lens of Scripture. Others lean heavy on experience and other things that feed the mind.

I have no problem with this statement. It is never scripture that presents a problem, but our fallible interpretation of scripture.

I guess what I am saying is, go ahead and have an open mind....but make sure you have a darn good filter.

I agree.

 

[Aaron]

The reason I said would you prefer a closed Bible and a closed mind is that is the alternative to an open Bible and an open mind.

No, it is not. The alternative is truth, and, contrary to the sentiment expressed in your signature, truth is an unchanging, eternal virtue.

 

[Crabtownboy]

No, it is not. The alternative is truth, and, contrary to the sentiment expressed in your signature, truth is an unchanging, eternal virtue.

Your response seems to me to address a separate issue ... truth. In that regard I have no problem with your comment.

However, no person understands God's entire truth. No person lives that long or is that wise. That being said the understanding we have is from the light we have been given and in our ability to understand. As we grow and mature we are able to understand more of God's truth. However, if we do not have an open mind then God can teach us nothing new. If our minds are closed nothing new, nothing deeper can enter.

IMHO learning and growing deeper is a life-long task and we must be open to what God has to teach us ... even if that means we have to give up some long held beliefs.

Our learning must never end.

 

[Salty]

ON a facebook military page about school children being taken to a Charlie Brown Christmas play at a church, I stated
" as all these groups - among others, have one thing in Common - it is the shed Blood of Christ that paid for our sins which will provide us eternity in Heaven"

I will also mention that one of the major contributors on that facebook page is a self-proclaimed pagan. As you can see I made it very clear that Jesus Christ is the only way.

So here is my question - Am I closed minded? (I'm sure we both agree I have an open Bible)

 

[Crabtownboy]

ON a facebook military page about school children being taken to a Charlie Brown Christmas play at a church, I stated
" as all these groups - among others, have one thing in Common - it is the shed Blood of Christ that paid for our sins which will provide us eternity in Heaven"

I will also mention that one of the major contributors on that facebook page is a self-proclaimed pagan. As you can see I made it very clear that Jesus Christ is the only way.

So here is my question - Am I closed minded? (I'm sure we both agree I have an open Bible)

Salty, wrong thread for the question. The question is not about being open or closed minded on the road to salvation.

The question in this thread deal with is your mind open such that you can change, even long held and loved positions, if God shows you what is to you new truth? This may come from your reading of the Bible, from hearing a sermon, from reading a book, from talking to another person and, yes, even from this BB.

I believe you would agree as you grew from childhood, through your teen years and then on in your adult years you beliefs changed in some manner. Is that correct?

 

[OldRegular]

The reason I said would you prefer a closed Bible and a closed mind is that is the alternative to an open Bible and an open mind.

The trite expressions "an open Bible and an open mind" or "a closed Bible and a closed mind" approach the nonsensical. Both are perfect examples of the tunnel vision of the leftist mindset.

It seems to me that for the Christian the combination should be Diligent and Prayerful Study of Scripture With a Spiritually Receptive Mind.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

"...create in me, a new HEART..."

 

[Aaron]

Your response seems to me to address a separate issue ... truth. In that regard I have no problem with your comment.

However, no person understands God's entire truth. No person lives that long or is that wise. That being said the understanding we have is from the light we have been given and in our ability to understand. As we grow and mature we are able to understand more of God's truth. However, if we do not have an open mind then God can teach us nothing new. If our minds are closed nothing new, nothing deeper can enter.

IMHO learning and growing deeper is a life-long task and we must be open to what God has to teach us ... even if that means we have to give up some long held beliefs.

Our learning must never end.

Blah, blah, blah. Sounds real humble to those who've little experience with this kind of rhetoric, but in reality, you're simply giving full vent to your sanctimonious pride under the cloak of false humility.

You have a Darwinistic view of revelation. That theologies and doctrines evolve, that all Antewellhausenian understanding must be discarded in light of the new revelations of modern science—even the idea of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Paul has some words concerning the kind of thing you're promoting, but, afterall, he was so First Century, and who really knows if it was really Paul that said them, or if we actually have them in the form in which they were delivered?

 

[Yeshua1]

Would you rather have a closed Bible and a closed mine?

No, rather prefer to have a biblical view of an inerrant/inspired/infallible Bible!

 

[Tom Butler]

Presenting alternatives without some wiggle room can create problems.

I learned this several years ago.

There are some things about Biblical truth where I am now closed-minded. You know, the basic Baptist believes on salvation, security, sovereignty, attributes of God

On other things in the Bible I will keep an open mind. For example, my first exposure to eschatology was from a dispensational view. It really sounded good. Then one Sunday, our new young pastor preached from a post-trib viewpoint. Shocked, several of us headed for him after the service. He smiled and held up his hand. "Guys, we're not going to debate this. You have an assignment. Go to your Bibles, and find me one single clear, unmistakable, not-subject-to-any-other-interpretation scripture verse or passage which clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture."

Shoot, we thought, that'll be easy.

It wasn't. We couldn't find one.

That one challenge caused me to re-think my position, and I came to the historical pre-mil position as a result. However, I emphasize that that's where I am today. I wasn't there yesterday and I may not be there tomorrow. This view is not engraved in granite for me.

Over the years, I have re-evailuated a lot of things which I just took for granted because a preacher I trusted said they were true. I wonder how mamy of us here are at the same place today that we were 25 years ago. I know I'm not.

Except for those things I mentioned earlier, of course. Some things are settled.