An Open Bible and an Open Mind

[Jerome]

"perhaps Calvin is made the standard and what business has any man to think a single thought beyond Calvin? Blessed be God, we have gone a little beyond that; and we can say, "Increase our faith." With all our admiration for these great standard divines, we are not prepared to shut ourselves up in their little iron cages; but we say, "Open the door, and let me fly—let me still feel that I am at liberty. Increase my faith, and help me to believe a little more."
I know I can say I have had an increase of faith in one or two respects within the last few months. I could not, for a long time, see anything like the Millenium in the Scriptures; I could not much rejoice in the Second Coming of Christ, though I did believe it; but gradually my faith began to open to that subject, and I find it now a part of my meat and drink, to be looking for, as well as hastening unto, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." —Charles Spurgeon

 

[Yeshua1]

Presenting alternatives without some wiggle room can create problems.

I learned this several years ago.

There are some things about Biblical truth where I am now closed-minded. You know, the basic Baptist believes on salvation, security, sovereignty, attributes of God

On other things in the Bible I will keep an open mind. For example, my first exposure to eschatology was from a dispensational view. It really sounded good. Then one Sunday, our new young pastor preached from a post-trib viewpoint. Shocked, several of us headed for him after the service. He smiled and held up his hand. "Guys, we're not going to debate this. You have an assignment. Go to your Bibles, and find me one single clear, unmistakable, not-subject-to-any-other-interpretation scripture verse or passage which clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture."

Shoot, we thought, that'll be easy.

It wasn't. We couldn't find one.

That one challenge caused me to re-think my position, and I came to the historical pre-mil position as a result. However, I emphasize that that's where I am today. I wasn't there yesterday and I may not be there tomorrow. This view is not engraved in granite for me.

Over the years, I have re-evailuated a lot of things which I just took for granted because a preacher I trusted said they were true. I wonder how mamy of us here are at the same place today that we were 25 years ago. I know I'm not.

Except for those things I mentioned earlier, of course. Some things are settled.

Thionk big difference between us disagreeing on the timing of the Rapture/Second Coming though, and from adopting a liberal mind set regarding the truths of the Bible! Closed mind to me buzz word to mean the person objects to the fundamental teachings of the Faith! he asking us to be more "open minded" towards critical/liberal theologies!

 

[Aaron]

Presenting alternatives without some wiggle room can create problems.

I learned this several years ago.

There are some things about Biblical truth where I am now closed-minded. You know, the basic Baptist believes on salvation, security, sovereignty, attributes of God

On other things in the Bible I will keep an open mind. For example, my first exposure to eschatology was from a dispensational view. It really sounded good. Then one Sunday, our new young pastor preached from a post-trib viewpoint. Shocked, several of us headed for him after the service. He smiled and held up his hand. "Guys, we're not going to debate this. You have an assignment. Go to your Bibles, and find me one single clear, unmistakable, not-subject-to-any-other-interpretation scripture verse or passage which clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture."

Shoot, we thought, that'll be easy.

It wasn't. We couldn't find one.

That one challenge caused me to re-think my position, and I came to the historical pre-mil position as a result. However, I emphasize that that's where I am today. I wasn't there yesterday and I may not be there tomorrow. This view is not engraved in granite for me.

Over the years, I have re-evailuated a lot of things which I just took for granted because a preacher I trusted said they were true. I wonder how mamy of us here are at the same place today that we were 25 years ago. I know I'm not.

Except for those things I mentioned earlier, of course. Some things are settled.

You're asking, "What did John mean?"

This is not what CBT is saying. He is saying that the revelation of Christ is of a wholly different nature than customarily believed and was not understood even by those through whom it was delivered, that the doctrines of the Church must evolve or die.

That is what he is saying in his signature: What I believe must be subject to change as God gives me new insights. It must be alive! Otherwise it is just dead doctrine.

 

[quantumfaith]

Your response seems to me to address a separate issue ... truth. In that regard I have no problem with your comment.

However, no person understands God's entire truth. No person lives that long or is that wise. That being said the understanding we have is from the light we have been given and in our ability to understand. As we grow and mature we are able to understand more of God's truth. However, if we do not have an open mind then God can teach us nothing new. If our minds are closed nothing new, nothing deeper can enter.

IMHO learning and growing deeper is a life-long task and we must be open to what God has to teach us ... even if that means we have to give up some long held beliefs.

Our learning must never end.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[quantumfaith]

The trite expressions "an open Bible and an open mind" or "a closed Bible and a closed mind" approach the nonsensical. Both are perfect examples of the tunnel vision of the leftist mindset.

It seems to me that for the Christian the combination should be Diligent and Prayerful Study of Scripture With a Spiritually Receptive Mind.

Same song, second verse.... tunnel vision is the attribute of those who over confidently have all things calculated to the nth power.

 

[OldRegular]

Same song, second verse.... tunnel vision is the attribute of those who over confidently have all things calculated to the nth power.

Tunnel Vision from: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/tunnel vision

1. An extremely narrow point of view; narrow-mindedness.

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Tunnel Vision from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tunnel+vision

2. narrowness of viewpoint resulting from concentration on a single idea, opinion, etc., to the exclusion of others

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Tunnel Vision from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tunnel vision

3. extreme narrowness of viewpoint : narrow-mindedness;
also : single-minded concentration on one objective

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Tunnel Vision from: http://websters.yourdictionary.com/tunnel-vision

4. a narrow outlook; specif., the focus of attention on a particular problem without proper regard for possible consequences or alternative approaches

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Could you perchance source your definition of tunnel vision. It is inconsistent with those I found! Number 4 above fits my understanding better than your definition! I mean: The nth power that can be big!

 

[quantumfaith]

Tunnel Vision from: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/tunnel vision

1. An extremely narrow point of view; narrow-mindedness.

*********

Tunnel Vision from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tunnel+vision

2. narrowness of viewpoint resulting from concentration on a single idea, opinion, etc., to the exclusion of others

***********

Tunnel Vision from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tunnel vision

3. extreme narrowness of viewpoint : narrow-mindedness;
also : single-minded concentration on one objective

************

Tunnel Vision from: http://websters.yourdictionary.com/tunnel-vision

4. a narrow outlook; specif., the focus of attention on a particular problem without proper regard for possible consequences or alternative approaches

**********************

Could you perchance source your definition of tunnel vision. It is inconsistent with those I found! Number 4 above fits my understanding better than your definition! I mean: The nth power that can be big!

I think you have "summed up" the definition quite well. Although, I was not making an attempt to define it. nth power can be either extremely large or small...simply depends on the value of n. If n is a rational number with say a numerator of 1 (or something infinitesimally small) and the denominator is LARGE, then n can approach a limiting value of zero.

 

[Crabtownboy]

this is not what CBT is saying. He is saying that the revelation of Christ is of a wholly different nature than customarily believed and was not understood even by those through whom it was delivered, that the doctrines of the Church must evolve or die.

Aaron, nope ... I am not talking about the doctrines of the church. I am talking about individuals having an open mind so God can continue to teach them as they live their life.

That is what he is saying in his signature: What I believe must be subject to change as God gives me new insights. It must be alive! Otherwise it is just dead doctrine.

Yes, as I live, mature, study, pray and hear my views may change to some extent, probably not very much, but will change.

 

[OldRegular]

I think you have "summed up" the definition quite well. Although, I was not making an attempt to define it. nth power can be either extremely large or small...simply depends on the value of n. If n is a rational number with say a numerator of 1 (or something infinitesimally small) and the denominator is LARGE, then n can approach a limiting value of zero.

I can't argue with that. However, for those who "think big" "n" tends to be rather large.

Or if I make "n" very, very large in the numerator and "n" very, very small in the denominator the final number may approach infinity!

 

[quantumfaith]

I can't argue with that. However, for those who "think big" "n" tends to be rather large.

Or if I make "n" very, very large in the numerator and "n" very, very small in the denominator the final number may approach infinity!

Actually, you are approaching being "undefined", and only God alone is permitted to divide by zero.

 

[Van]

Church leaders who teach in cliches and motherhood statements are extremely suspect. Those that avoid taking a position in the name of keeping an open mind may only have an agenda, like Mr. Stalin, who gained power by not taking a position.

I do agree with the idea of the priesthood of believers, rather than being governed by elitists who usually are pushing man-made doctrines of the past. They seek the power to suppress.

As far as seeing something of value in diversity, one must never make an accommodation with evil. We are to correct and rebuke our brothers in love, not let them go their separate way. Christianity is a team sport to put forth a motherhood statement of merit.

 

[OldRegular]

Actually, you are approaching being "undefined", and only God alone is permitted to divide by zero.

I haven't got to zero yet! Could infinity be defined as undefined?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Personally, I love the fact that Baptist are "people of the book", and we do have an open bible.

I wish however that more of us had and open mind as well.

And I am not refering to anything even remotely like the ultra-liberal chrches, I am refering to close minded baptists.

 

[Alive in Christ]

I would like to read it but it was in some other lanuguge

OK. I found it and read some of it. Got nothing...good or bad..out of it at all.

 

[quantumfaith]

I haven't got to zero yet! Could infinity be defined as undefined?

Take a look a Hilberts Hotel problem for an exercise in infinities. From a mathematics perspective, there are "degrees of infininity", that is some infinities are "bigger than others".

 

[Bro. Curtis]

There is no measure, at all, in infinity. We cannot point to anything as being infinite. Even in electronics, when an equation shows you infinity as an answer, when applied, there is never infinite resistance, and there is never infinite current flow. We cannot understand infinity. Time is ours, not God's. There will come a day when time will be no more. Then we will understand infinity.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is no measure, at all, in infinity. We cannot point to anything as being infinite. Even in electronics, when an equation shows you infinity as an answer, when applied, there is never infinite resistance, and there is never infinite current flow. We cannot understand infinity. Time is ours, not God's. There will come a day when time will be no more. Then we will understand infinity.

try to figure out God existing eternally, NOTHING else "there' except for him.period! No time/space/etc!

 

[humblethinker]

There is so much to be wrong about and history has shown that at least a considerable part of us are. The things that divide God's church should be few. Why should anyone of us be so bold as to insist that what we first believed is correct? We are not so special that it must be the case that our initial beliefs are actually THE correct beliefs. The odds are in one's favor to change their initial belief. All humans should always question their initial beliefs.

QF, I saw you offered Hilbert's Hotel and in light of my comments above I offer the Monty Hall Problem.