Most FUNDAMENTAL Baptists on the BB = 100% Dispensational in eschatology and consider Covenant theology to be of liturgical protestant poor theology
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Are most Fundamental Baptists Churches KJVO then?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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37818
Well-Known Member
The 1917 Scofield,used the 1769 Oxford KJV.
Would say only we Calvinists hold to CT to some degree, others still strong Dispy
Have to explain to Spurgeon how he held to "poor theology" then, as he was Reformed Baptist
There are quite a few C/T here, Dr. Bob, and I do agree with that statement.
Think we can still agree to be one in Christ still though
You still did not answer my question - from post # 52 I was NOT asking about the 1611 vs Modern versions -I don't know who these people are so I trust the info from the KJV store.
See what they have to say.
How the KJV Bible of 1611 Differs From the Modern Version
Though the King James Version of the Bible has been an enduring work of literature, it may not be as preserved in amber as you think. Learn how it has changed.www.thekjvstore.com
I was asking the difference between the 1611 and 1769!
Thus - does you "1611" look like the "1611" in my link?
Simple yes or no should suffice!
The authorized KJV 1611 Bibles I have are the ones with the minor changes in spelling, punctuation, and the replacing of obsolete words, made in 1769. These Bibles still carry the "1611" stamp due to the core message being the same as the original authorized 1611.
KJB1611reader
Active Member
I have a 1611.
KJB1611reader
Active Member
Yes, my 1611 look like the 1611 besides the font.
The picture of the Bible in your link is the original, and no, my Bible does not have that font or the outdated spelling.
The Oxford KJV text in the 1917 Scofield Reference Bible is not identical to the KJV text in the 1769 Oxford edition. The 1769 Oxford edition is said to have had over 100 errors that would be corrected in later Oxford KJV editions in the 1800's. One of those errors was not corrected until the 1873 Cambridge.
In all capital letters, Dave Reese asserted: “There were no words changes in the text of the 1909 and 1917 editions” [of the Scofield Reference Bible] (Book No One Can Read, p. 51). Al Lacy claimed that the Old Scofield Reference Bible “has the untouched KING JAMES TEXT” (Can I Trust, p. 89).
Perhaps many are unaware of the fact that the Oxford edition of the KJV in the old Scofield Reference Bible had some unique, different, or rare renderings including word changes that could be said to characterize it [“daytime” (Num. 14:14) instead of “day time,” “and all that” (Lev. 14:36) instead of “that all that”, “unto the coast“ (Deut. 3:14) instead of “unto the coasts”, “And when thou dost” (Deut. 24:10) instead of “When thou doest”, “hastened” (1 Sam. 17:48) instead of “hasted”, “spirit of God” (1 Sam. 19:23) instead of “Spirit of God,” “people of the men” (2 Sam. 16:15) instead of “people, the men”, “the Lord“ (1 Kings 8:56, Jer. 32:26) instead of “the LORD”, “anything” (Rom. 8:33) instead of “any thing”, “lusteth” (Rev. 18:14 instead of “lusted”)]. In these places, the KJV text of the old Scofield Reference Bible differs from that in most typical post-1900 KJV editions. When some KJV-only preachers were holding in their hands during the 1970’s and 1980’s the old Scofield Reference Bible and were preaching from it, they likely did not know that it had some new differences, word changes, or errors likely introduced by the printer or typesetter to its KJV text. Dave Reese’s assumption and claim that there were no word changes in the KJV text in the old Scofield Reference Bible was simply not true even though he was likely sincere in believing his incorrect opinion.
I read your article. I pulled this section out.I don't know who these people are so I trust the info from the KJV store.
See what they have to say.
How the KJV Bible of 1611 Differs From the Modern Version
Though the King James Version of the Bible has been an enduring work of literature, it may not be as preserved in amber as you think. Learn how it has changed.
Rock of H’s
One small difference concerns our understanding of the Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. In the 1611 edition of the KJV, printers capitalized the “G” in “Ghost” but not the “H” in “Holy,” treating it as a mere adjective and not part of its name. 19th-century revisions clarified that the third form of God is not a Ghost that is holy but rather the Holy Ghost. Details matter.I agree with the capitalization of the “H.” I assume you would also. This is a 19th century change.
They also said this.
“The KJV Store offers both the modern and slightly amended King James Version as well as the original 1611 version.”
While they do tell you how to differentiate between their products, this is not true of publishers everywhere.
The only thing that they have done is create a market for themselves where their clear labels as to what they are selling attract all KJV buyers.
But the KJV store has not taken a KJV stand. They are making a living selling variations of the KJV.
I personally NEVER capitalize the "H", since the inspired Hebrew text uses it as an adjective. And opt NEVER to use the word "Ghost" since that outdated word has evolved into a thousand shades of meaning that is NOT a good picture of the SPIRIT of the Lord.
Of course, I pastored 33 years in Casper, Wyoming, and "ghost" was used by everyone who wanted to be "friendly".
English evolves with rapidity
Of course, I pastored 33 years in Casper, Wyoming, and "ghost" was used by everyone who wanted to be "friendly".
English evolves with rapidity
37818
Well-Known Member
@Logos1560,
The 1917 Scofield the KJV used was identified as best I understood. I trust you have more accurate information.
Had "he" instead of "ye"
Jeremiah 34:16, But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom he had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.
The 1917 Scofield the KJV used was identified as best I understood. I trust you have more accurate information.
Had "he" instead of "ye"
Jeremiah 34:16, But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom he had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.
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KJB1611reader
Active Member
Holy Ghost, isn't 'holy' missing in the Greek some times?
This, I am told, is the difference between the Cambridge and Oxford editions. While it is easy to find Bibles still using the Oxford error, my understanding is that most of the Oxfords have acknowledged the error and and changed it to "ye." This is what the research of others has told me. I have not gone beyond reading about the verse into the realms of gathering information from publishers.
Cambridge Edition
Jeremiah 34:16 But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom ye had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.
Oxford Edition
Jeremiah 34:16 But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom he had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.
Looking at the context without going into the Hebrew, it is pretty clear that the people being addressed were the people who had freed their servants and brought them back into bondage again.
Sorry for jumping in unaddressed, I have just been over this. If there is more on this I am certainly interested.
The rendering "whom he" was not first introduced by a printer at Oxford. It was found in 1613 and 1616 London KJV editions by the king's printer, and it was also in the standard 1629 Cambridge edition and in the standard 1638 Cambridge edition. It is likely from those two standard Cambridge editions that the rendering is found in many later KJV editions.
Jeremiah 34:16 [whom ye--1560 Geneva, 1568 & 1602 Bishops]
whom ye (1968 Oxford, Oxford Classic, 1996 SSB, NPB) [1812, 1816, 1817, 1873, 1985, 2005, 2011 Cambridge, 1953 PM, CCR, CSTE, DKJB, 2011 PMR, 2011 Transetto Text, 2011 Cameo, 2011 Clarion] {1611, 1614, 1617, 1626, 1630, 1631, 1634, 1640, 1976 London} (1637 Edinburgh) (1816 Albany) (1816 Collins) (1818 Holbrook) (1821 Brown) (1827 Smith) (1828 MH) (1832 PSE) (1835 Towar) (1839, 1845, 1854 Harding) (1843 AFBS) (1846 Portland) (1848 Hartford) (1952 Judson) (1956, 1957, 1958, 1975, 1999 Collins) (1966 SC) (1968 Royal) (1970, 1976 TN) (1972 NMRB) (1973, 1976 REG) (GPB) (1975 Open) (1976 OGH) (1976 TBR) (1987, 1988 IBS) (1991, 2012 FWP) (1990’s, 2010 LCBP) (1983, 1984, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2010 ZOND) (DSB) (JVIPB) (LPB) (VFC) (1996 ELKJV) (2001, 2002, 2003, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2022, 2024 Barbour) (2003 IGC) (KJVJB) (TPB) (HPB) (2006 PENG) (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2011p, 2021, 2022 HEND) (2008, 2012 ROASB) (NHPB) (2009 Ruckman) (2009 Strand) (ASB) (2011 AMP) (TBS-WT) (2011 KJVDB) (2011 WB) (HKJVSB) (NCE) (2012 Biblica) (2013 CC) (2013 HMB) (2013, 2014 TGS) (2014 HKJVSBps) (2014 RHKJVSB) (2015 KAPPA) (2018 Spurgeon) (2019p Holman) (2022 FMSB)
whom he (1675, 1681, 1709, 1713, 1720, 1737, 1743, 1762, 1764, 1765, 1769 Oxford, 1952 PE, SRB) [1629, 1635, 1637, 1638, 1648, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1761, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1768, 1769, 1775, 1778, 1783, 1790, 1792, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1824, 1833, 1837, 1842, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872, 1887 Cambridge] {1613, 1616, 1644, 1648, 1652, 1655, 1657, 1660, 1672, 1684, 1698, 1703, 1706, 1711, 1730, 1735, 1741, 1743, 1747, 1750, 1759, 1760, 1763, 1764, 1767, 1768, 1772, 1795, 1811, 1813, 1817, 1820, 1824, 1825, 1827, 1838, 1853, 1860, 1877, 1879 London} (1755 Oxon) (1638, 1715, 1722, 1735, 1751, 1756, 1760, 1764, 1766, 1769, 1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1796, 1806, 1810, 1820, 1827, 1842, 1843, 1851, 1858 Edinburgh) (1860, 1866 Glasgow) (1722, 1762, 1782, 1801, 1809 Dublin) (1645 Dutch) (1696, 1700 MP) (1746 Leipzig) (1774 Fortescu) (1776 Birmingham) (1776 Pasham) (1777 Wood) (1782 Aitken) (1790 Bolton) (1790, 1804 MH) (1791 Collins) (1791, 1841 Thomas) (1792, 1831 Brown) (1799 Helston) (1801 Hopkins) (1802, 1813 Carey) (1803 Etheridge) (1804 Blomfield) (1804 Gower) (1807 Johnson) (1809, 1810, 1813, 1818, 1826, 1828 Boston) (1810, 1814 Woodward) (1815 Walpole) (1816, 1836 Hartford) (1818, 1819, 1827, 1829, 1830, 1831, 1840, 1843, 1851, 1853, 1854, 1855, 1858, 1888, 1894, 1902, 1954, 1956, 1957, 1963, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1984, 1988, 2004, 2008 ABS) (1824, 1826 Bagster) (1826 Clarke) (1832, 1835 Scott) (1836 Stebbing) (1840 Roby) (1843 Robinson) (1846 Coldstream) (1846 Benson) (1850, 1856 AFBS) (1859, 1868 RTS) (1876 Harding) (1895, 1958, 1997 NPC) (1897 ABU) (1876 Porter) (1905, 1945, 1954, 1989, 1991, 1998, 2004 World) (1908, 1957, 1964, 2007, 2022 TCRB) (1910 Collins) (1911 TCE) (1923 NIB) (1924, 1958 Hertel) (1940, 1976, 1979-1, 1979-2, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2010, 2013 Holman) (1942 UBBH) (1947 SP) (1948 WSE) (1959 Little) (1961, 1975, 1978, 2008 GID) (1961 NBP) (1972, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1994, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2022 TN) (1973 WAP) (1974 MBI) (1975 CBP) (Nave’s) (1976 BH) (1984 MME) (1985, 2019 Open) (1985 VB) (1987 Dugan) (1987 PSI) (Dake’s) (CSB) (RRB) (WMCRB) (MSB) (LASB) (1984, 1991, 2008 AMG) (1990 REG) (2000 Rainbow) (CHSB) (EB) (RSB) (Life) (KJVCB) (2005 ICC) (2006 PP) (2007 SFCB) (CNB) (2008 Pilot) (2010, 2015 Baker) (2010 BEAMS) (2010 BRO) (APB) (2011 PJB) (2012 F-S) (2012 WSB) (HMSB) (2014 TSB) (2015 KJVFSB) (2017 KWSB) (2022 SB) (2024 FGWB)