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Calvinists' Conversions

Luke2427

Active Member
Hi All,

Before I was saved, I heard the gospel preached and backed up with quotes from the scripture. The preaching of the gospel that I heard was in a style of communication that implied to me that I needed to make a free will decision to accept Christ as my savior in order to be saved, the scripture that was used to support the gospel also implied to me that I needed to make a free will decision to accept Christ as my savior in order to be saved. When I actually looked up the scriptures that were used in the sermons, again the Bible text implied to me that I needed to make a free will decision to accept Christ as my savior in order to be saved. I had no idea whether the preacher believed in free will or not (Calvinism). For several months God was convicting me of my sin and that I was headed to hell, if I did not have my sins forgiven by faith in Christ. I was saved believing that I had made a free will decision to accept God's call to accept Christ as my savior.

As a new believer, I began to study the word of God from that perspective. As I came across the few verses (~2%) in the Bible that a Calvinists would use to syllogisticly build their “no free will to accept Christ as our savior” theology, I only temporarily mentally noted that they could be used to build the “no free will to accept Christ as our savior” theology; However, I proceeded to interpret those few scriptures from free will precedence, and did not have any problems understanding and interpreting them from a free will perspective. During these early years of my Christian life I had not even heard of Calvinism.

Years later I begin to come across Calvinists and heard their teaching and read of their theology of “no free will to accept Christ as our savior”. Their teaching of “no free will to accept Christ as our savior” seemed very strange to me; however their teaching and teaching method of just using those few verses (~2%) in the Bible appeared to me to be very intellectually appealing and very scholarly to me. I began to search myself as to why I had trouble accepting their very academic and scholarly syllogistic development of their “no free will to accept Christ as our savior” theology.

When they would give their interpretation of those few scriptures in their logic loop, the thought that repeatedly came to my mind was “what about the rest of the scriptures?” I would ask a question like “But, what about this verse over here in the Bible?”, then they would jump back to repeating their academic and scholarly syllogistic logic loop. I would again ask them the same question “But, what about this other verse over here in the Bible?”. And again they would jump right back on to their academic and scholarly syllogistic logic loop. Obviously the verses I brought up were verses that implied “that man had free will to accept or reject Christ as their savior”. After I had asked them about several verses in the Bible that implied “that man had free will to accept or reject Christ as their savior”, they would start accusing me of having a proof-texting mentality. I was then baffled and did not know how to proceed in the discussion with them, except to just ask them to give me more detail about their theology of “no free will to accept or reject Christ as our savior”.

Their seemed to me to be something about their development of the “no free will to accept or reject Christ as our savior” theology from the verses that they presented that seemed strange, even though their presentation of their logic loop appeared to me to be a very good academic and scholarly syllogistic logic loop. Also, their seemed to be something wrong with my method of discussing my conclusions with them. For a number of years, I pondered those two questions. Finally, I realized that they were experts at getting folk like me to get started on a verse hurdling contest, and then they would start accusing folk like me of being guilty of proof-texting. I asked myself why I was throwing the verses that I used at them? I realized that intuitively I realized that the “majority (~98%) of the Bible”, if not the whole Bible, was communicating from God to man in a style that reeked with an implication of an understood presupposition that those being communicated to (mankind) have the free will capacity to believe or reject what was being communicated to them from God. From that point on, I very early in discussions with a Calvinist, would point this out to them instead of getting caught up in a verse hurdling contest. I now also point out to them that the volume of scriptures that they use makes up only about 2% of the scriptures. I realized that the majority of people that get saved, intuitively see this implied underlying free will presupposition in the majority (98%) of the Bible without even being fully cognizant of it; and therefore, like I was, are unable to rationally explain it at first. Since the majority of scripture reeks with an implication of an understood presupposition that those being communicated to (mankind) have the free will capacity to believe or reject what was being communicated to them from God, I believe most folk, like myself, intuitively let that set the precedence and will automatically interpret the Calvinist ~2% of the scripture from a free will perspective. And those Calvinist ~2% of the scriptures are easily understood from a free will perspective. When I ask Calvinists to interpret the ~98% of scripture, that imply the free will of man, from their “no free will to accept or reject Christ as our savior” perspective, the majority of the time the answer I get is along this line “God communicates with man in a style that assumes man has a free will to accept or reject what God communicates, but God knows that man does not have the free will capacity to accept or reject what God communicates.” That response seems to me to imply that God has been deceiving mankind on this theological issue for millennia, implying that God is a deceiver. When I tell them that implies that God is a deceiver, they usually respond by saying that “--- My (God's) ways (are) higher than your ways --- Isa. 55:9”. When I ask the Calvinists why ~99% of the time they preach in a communication style that also implies the hearer has a free will to accept of reject, they usually reply by “saying that is the way God does it in the Bible”. This answer is like saying “If God is deceiving man on this issue, then so can I”. In my mind I think of those Calvinists that preach that way as “Bipolar Calvinists”.

David G.

Those percentages are bogus, dear brother.

That God is exhaustively sovereign and works all things after the counsel of his own will and that man is totally depraved completely unable to turn to God in his unregenerate state is clear throughout the whole counsel of God.
 

Tom Butler

New Member
To answer the OP, I don't know whether my pastor at the time the Lord saved me was a Calvinist or not.

I never heard a sermon preached or a lesson taught on election or predestination before I stumbled across the subject in a book on Bible Doctrine borrowed from my pastor when I was about 30 years old.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To answer the OP, I was a Roman Catholic & it never made sense to me & I could never understand how you could be a filthy sinner & go to confession or say a prayer & have your sins magically washed away....the whole thing to me was bizarre. When I first heard a sermon on Election, I was floored & felt like the scales on my eyes had fallen off. Then everything in the Doctrines of Grace made perfect sense. I had always said I believed God is Sovereign, but these doctrines put it together for me quite correctly & it was almost effortless to understand. Sure you ask Jesus to come into your life, but not until that Irresistible Grace is provided. Then Christ is irresistible. You are so drawn to Him that I fear I would annoy others. They all knew to stay away or Id convert you or try. Funny cause I could have had a great career as a criminal making tons of money & I am content as a average schmoe doing the lords work. Unbelievable!
 
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SRBooe

New Member
Man's decisions have always been his own. There were men who exercised their free will and were put into situations to think it over - want to ride in a fish?

I accepted Christ into my life using free will on my part and God's election on His part. I may not have ever chosen to accept Christ, though. There are those who say that I would eventually, but I have not seen proof of that myself.

I don't know that I will ever believe that, because God elects someone, that someone will have to accept Christ Jesus as their savior. Man's free will is still free will - or free won't.

My understanding, and I agree that I am not a Bible scholar, is that a non-elected person will never feel pulled to accept Jesus; regardless of how many times he hears the Gospel.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Man's decisions have always been his own. There were men who exercised their free will and were put into situations to think it over - want to ride in a fish?

I accepted Christ into my life using free will on my part and God's election on His part. I may not have ever chosen to accept Christ, though. There are those who say that I would eventually, but I have not seen proof of that myself.

I don't know that I will ever believe that, because God elects someone, that someone will have to accept Christ Jesus as their savior. Man's free will is still free will - or free won't.

My understanding, and I agree that I am not a Bible scholar, is that a non-elected person will never feel pulled to accept Jesus; regardless of how many times he hears the Gospel.

So are you drawn to Christ? Or is it a take it or leave it situation for you?
 

psalms109:31

Active Member
Lamb

Most people are lambs having to depend on the shepherd.

If a lamb was constantly told they were chosen in the womb, that they are predestined to salvation, chosen before the foundation of the world. That trusting in Jesus is just a formality of election.

If this person isn't really the sheep of Christ would this be misleading?

I went to a Calvinism youth service and this is the feeling I got there and knowing I couldn't cause discord among believers kept my mouth shut and got very depressed
 
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