Can we judge salvation?

[standingfirminChrist]

I believe that we can know who is saved and who is not saved. Jesus said we would know the tree by its fruit.

If one is professing Christ with their tongue, yet they are taking pleasure in worldly activities that do not reflect God, then the profession is not true possession. God's Word tells us that if we love the world the love of God is not in us. And that is true no matter how loud one yells that one believes in Christ.

 

[Joe]

I believe that we can know who is saved and who is not saved. Jesus said we would know the tree by its fruit.

I understand that is in the context of identifying false prophets. No one can identify who is saved.

Gotta take off now to the Dr's office, back later

 

[TCGreek]

Why the interest in determining the true salvation of others?

 

[rbell]

Why the interest in determining the true salvation of others?

Ah, the $64,000 question...

Not only can we not fully know who is saved & who is not...that isn't even our business to know. Our business is to tell, and show, the love of Christ.

Scripture does have some things to say about being a busybody...

 

[mcdirector]

Ah, the $64,000 question...

Not only can we not fully know who is saved & who is not...that isn't even our business to know. Our business is to tell, and show, the love of Christ.

Scripture does have some things to say about being a busybody...

Get outta here!

 

[dan e.]

Why the interest in determining the true salvation of others?

In order to make some feel bad about not sharing the same convictions as you.

 

[TCGreek]

Get outta here!

Are you thinking what I am thinking?

 

[TCGreek]

In order to make some feel bad about not sharing the same convictions as you.

This has the stench of legalism.

 

[christianyouth]

In order to make some feel bad about not sharing the same convictions as you.

That's not true at all. That's offensive Dan e, that someone who is always talking about not judging would say something like that.

 

[JustChristian]

This has the stench of legalism.

Actually, it doesn't. We can't judge the salvation of someone else. Jesus will do that at the Judgment. However, sometimes we need to make our own personal judgment. Example, someone is dying. I believe that person needs to be treated differently if they're not saved. The question is one of not letting a person die without Christ and then spend all of eternity in Hell. I understand that you and some others here are of the Calvinist persuasion and therefore see no urgency here but I do.

 

[TCGreek]

Actually, it doesn't. We can't judge the salvation of someone else. Jesus will do that at the Judgment. However, sometimes we need to make our own personal judgment. Example, someone is dying. I believe that person needs to be treated differently if they're not saved. The question is one of not letting a person die without Christ and then spend all of eternity in Hell. I understand that you and some others here are of the Calvinist persuasion and therefore see no urgency here but I do.

As a Christian I have the responsibility of offering the gospel to everyone---my calvinism does not prevent me from offering the gospel to the lost---I suggest you get your facts straight.

 

[Brother Bob]

I believe that we can know who is saved and who is not saved. Jesus said we would know the tree by its fruit.

If one is professing Christ with their tongue, yet they are taking pleasure in worldly activities that do not reflect God, then the profession is not true possession. God's Word tells us that if we love the world the love of God is not in us. And that is true no matter how loud one yells that one believes in Christ.

What about Judas?????

 

[Amy.G]

We are called to examine ourselves.

2Cr 13:5 Test yourselves {to see} if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?

We are called to discern false teachers.

Mat 7:15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn {bushes} nor figs from thistles, are they?

Only God has the authority to judge someone's salvation.

 

[christianyouth]

I understand that you and some others here are of the Calvinist persuasion and therefore see no urgency here but I do.

Grr..(that's meant to intimidate)

No really, I use WOTM and it is a great evangelism tool. Many Calvinists I know have a passion to see people saved, please don't misrepresent.

 

[Palatka51]

I was at one time a Grocery Store Night Manager and as a Christian I thought that I carried myself well among my coworkers and customers. One day the Meat Market Manager and I were discussing the Word of God as he too was a Christian of a different denomination (Pentecostal). As I was explaining my belief in OSAS he blurted out that I was going to Hell. Needless to say I was quite taken a back as it came at me out of the blue. I coolly looked at him and asked, "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?" "Yes", was his reply. "So do I," I added.
"Do you believe that He took our sins to the cross, died, was buried and resurrected on the third day?" "Yes," "So do I".
"So Ray, I'll see you at the Judgment seat of Christ where we both shall be judged by what we have built on that foundation that you and I have just now agreed on."

There is a reason that there is a judgment seat of Christ and it is He who will judge our individual houses and not you my brother. You can help me build. You can teach me how to build. You can not judge what I've built. Your building just might not be as stable.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[rbell]

I believe that we can know who is saved and who is not saved. Jesus said we would know the tree by its fruit.

If one is professing Christ with their tongue, yet they are taking pleasure in worldly activities that do not reflect God, then the profession is not true possession. God's Word tells us that if we love the world the love of God is not in us. And that is true no matter how loud one yells that one believes in Christ.

But "your list" of "worldly activities" might be different than someone else's. Whose "list" is then "right?"

Bad idea to decide you're qualified to judge someone's salvation. It is neither your realm of expertise, nor your business.

 

[Joe]

We are talking about judging salvation here. Not my place.

I wouldn't hang around folks chosing to live in sin. I would confront them if they were in church, if they'd been a part of my life and they'd changed - see what happens, but the removal would be happening. I would be praying for a change of heart in the other's life.

We use judgment with discernment for ministry opportunities - not to cut people off. How would we minister to the lost then?

It seems in order to know who to minister to, we must judge or use discernment concerning their salvation. No one walks someone through the plan of salvation if they believe they are already saved. If I don't appear saved, I hope my BB brothers and sisters will tell me in a loving way even if it goes against BB rules.

Maybe discernment is a better word than judgment in this context.

I guess we are different. I have no problems hanging around anyone, including people living in sin as long as the activity we are engaged in is positive and very focused (Bike riding, hiking, etc..) God is a part of me, so he will come up in conversation. If that is a problem for them, then they don't need to hang out with me.

AND on that other thread -- you called it abandoning children, I was looking at education in a different environment - a temporary solution. While we didn't agree, we probably could agree that our families are different and we both love the Lord and would be looking for ways to help the other one in a difficult situation.

I am not sure we could agree that both families love the Lord, for when you love the Lord, you also love your children. Parents who love their children, believers or not, don't choose education which requires abandonment of their parental responsibilities, unless they feel it is in the best interests of the child. Or they are really messed up, mentally or physically and can't handle the job. But to become missionaries, then blame the Lord for your abandonment concerning the children is evil imo. The bible explains the role of parents to their children, husbands to their wives and so on....The family institution is very important to the Lord, and any biblical examples offered are not examples when read in context.

I have taught these classes at church. It was called the Role of the Family. Not that it makes me an expert by far.

Parents only know their children are within Gods will if they are present to ensure it is happening. If they are teaching them God's will. Otherwise, it is a guessing game.
Their children could be lying to the parents due to intimidation etc...Ask Oprah

It's actually a good thing (sort of) that we don't agree, so no worries here.

 

[tinytim]

Can we judge salvation....

Are we God?

Too many people want to play God..
But there is only room for one in the universe...

Playing God was Satan's fall....

Wanna fall too? Play God.

No! No one can tell who is saved... we can have a pretty good guess, but we cannot tell for sure.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

knowing them by their fruits does not just apply to false prophets. Those who are God's will not live in continual sin without feeling His chastening hand in their lives.

Jesus told the Disciples that all men would know they were His Disciples by their love one for another.j

If one is a follower of Christ... it will show.
If one serves flesh, the world, and the devil... it will show

 

[webdog]

knowing them by their fruits does not just apply to false prophets. Those who are God's will not live in continual sin without feeling His chastening hand in their lives.

Knowing who's a believer and judging who's a believer is night and day.