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Charles spurgeon on roman catholicism: “a vast mountain of rubbish covering the truth
- Thread starter Osage Bluestem
- Start date
GE:
I have to explain away nothing that does not exist. Don't try that trick on me!
Not even "3rd century evidences for Sunday/first day of the week as the recognized "Lord's day"", exist; PERHAPS, some attempts; but "evidences" : from 2 and a half centuries AFTER the 'recognized' events and contemporary literature? Bietjie dik vir 'n daalder!
Dr. Walter
New Member
The interchangable terms used from the first to the third centuries demonstrate that "the Lord's Day" was universally recognized by Christians as Sunday, the first day of the week, the eighth day and resurrection day:
Ignatius says about A.D. 70 – “Let every one who loves Christ, keep holy the Lord’s Day, the queen of days, the resurrection day, the highest of all days.”
Ireneus, Bishop of Lyons, disciple of Polycarp says, “On the Lord’s Day, every one of us Christians keep the Sabbath.”
Ireneus statement is rediculous if there had been no difference between the jewish and Christian day of observance or if there had been no change of Sabbath day observance by Christians.
Barnabas in about A.D. 120 says, “We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead”
Justin Martyr in about A.D. 140 says, “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day rose again from the dead.”
Theopolis in A.D. 167 says, “Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed the resurrection from the dead.”
Theolopolis would not have to say this if the REGULAR Sabbath was identifical with the resurrection day!
Dionysius in A.D. 170 says, “We passed this holy Lord’s Day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.”
Dynidions in A.D. 170 says, “We Celebrate only the Lord’s Day.”
Bardesanes in A.D. 180 says, “On one day, the first day of the week, we assemble ourselves together.”
Clement in A.D. 192 says that a Christian “According to the commandment of the gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection.”
Clement of Alexandria says in A.D. 194, “He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.”
Tertullian in A.D. 200 says, “We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradiction to those who call this day their Sabbath.”
Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says, “The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, is the Lord’s Day.”
The Apostolical Constitution says in A.D. 250, “On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently.”
Anatolius in about A.D. 270 says, “The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated on the Lord’s Day.”
Anatolius Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in A.D. 270 says, “Our regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.”
Victorinus in A.D. 300 says, “On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously that on the Lord’s Day we may go forth to our brad with giving of thanks, lest we should appear to observe any other Sabbath with the Jewish, which Sabbath He in His body abolished.”
Peter, Bishop of Alexanderia in A.D. 306 says, “But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose again.”
Mosheim, in Volume one, page 45 says, “In the first century all Christians were unanimous in the setting apart the first day of the week on which the Savior arose from the dead, for the solemn celebration of public worship; and it was observed universally as appears from the united testimony of the most credible writers.”
CONCLUSION: The proximity of quotations that define the Lord's Day as the first day of the week, the day after the Jewish Sabbath, the eighth day demonstrate the absolute nonsense that you employ in your divide and conquor strategy. Moshiem is correct as any unbiased historian can easily see. Not only is the historical testimony against you but so is the Old and new Testament Biblical testimony opposed to you.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In this quote below - Spurgeon argues for Sabbath commandment keeping, not "commandment breaking".
Walter complains that we should only keep God's commandments if we "edit them" according to man-made-tradition so that they no longer apply as God spoke them.
How sad.
I agree with many of Spurgeon's points below - but I do not agree with Walter's "only follow the Bible if you can first edit the Bible" ideas.
Walter complains that we should only keep God's commandments if we "edit them" according to man-made-tradition so that they no longer apply as God spoke them.
How sad.
I agree with many of Spurgeon's points below - but I do not agree with Walter's "only follow the Bible if you can first edit the Bible" ideas.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Charles Spurgeon said, "I am no preacher of the old legal Sabbath. I am a preacher of the Gospel. The Sabbath of the Jew is to him a task; the Lord's Day of the Christian, the first day of the week, is to him a joy, a day of rest, of peace, and of thanksgiving. And if you Christian men can earnestly drive away all distractions, so that you can really rest today, it will be good for your bodies, good for your souls, good mentally, good spiritually, good temporally, and good eternally." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 7, p. 580.
Spurgeon, Moody and Pink interpreted the fourth commandment just as I do. They believed in the fourth commandment and that it was applicable today - so do I. They refused to interpret it as the seventh day "OF THE WEEK" and so do I. They defined it under the New Covenant as "the first day of the week" and so do I. However, They rejected the idea that it referred to the seventh day "of the week" .
Bob, you are simply being dishonest with the complete context of Spurgeon and Moody's quotations. If you had continued reading Moody instead of selecting a portion of his article you would have read him repeatedly stated that the Christian Sabbath is Sunday and that he interpreted the fourth commandment to be "one day in seven" and not the seventh day "of the week." Just be honest with a man's position and writing.
Spurgeon, Moody and Pink interpreted the fourth commandment just as I do. They believed in the fourth commandment and that it was applicable today - so do I. They refused to interpret it as the seventh day "OF THE WEEK" and so do I. They defined it under the New Covenant as "the first day of the week" and so do I. However, They rejected the idea that it referred to the seventh day "of the week" .
Bob, you are simply being dishonest with the complete context of Spurgeon and Moody's quotations. If you had continued reading Moody instead of selecting a portion of his article you would have read him repeatedly stated that the Christian Sabbath is Sunday and that he interpreted the fourth commandment to be "one day in seven" and not the seventh day "of the week." Just be honest with a man's position and writing.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Do your argument a big favor - prove it.
You keep ducking the points of my post as if that is helping your case.
Less ad hominem -- more factual response to points raised.
in Christ,
Bob
Dr. Walter
New Member
Bob, I just did prove it - I quoted Spurgeon's direct belief concerning the Old Testament Sabbath! I quoted Spurgeon's dirrect understanding of the New Testament Sabbath? You are pitting Spurgeon against Spurgeon! Any student of Spurgeon knows he NEVER EVER practiced Saturday Sabbath observance - NEVER EVER! You are simply advertising your own ignorance of Spurgeon!!!!! Spurgeon says nothing different than did Moody of the fourth commandment! Neither statement says they believe the Sabbath is to be observed on the seventh day "OF THE WEEK"!!!!!!
I have quoted continued to quote Moody in the same article you quoted and he repeatedly over and over again identifies SUNDAY as the Christian Sabbath and clearly and explicitly states that the fourth commandment only teaches that "one day in seven" is to be observed and NOWHERE says the seven day "OF THE WEEK" is the Sabbath!!!
You don't believe Spurgeon's own disavowal of SATURDAYISM and you don't believe Moody's own definition of the Christian Sabbath!
I can requote them but it is plain you don't care what they believed but rather you do the same thing with Spurgeon and Moody as you do with Scripture - pick and choose what you like and ignore the rest.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Spurgeon, in his commentary on the Psalms, "The Treasury of David", says in the course of commenting on Psalm 118.24 (my emphasis):
We observe the Lord’s day as henceforth our true Sabbath, a day made and ordained of God, for the perpetual remembrance of the achievements of our Redeemer. Whenever the soft Sabbath light of the first day of the week breaks upon the earth, let us sing,
"This is the day the Lord hath made,
He calls the hours his own;
Let heaven rejoice, let earth be glad,
And praise surround the throne."
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven" - D.L. Moody
" No man should make another work seven days in the week. One day is demanded for rest. A man who has to work the seven days has nothing to look forward to, and life becomes humdrum. Many Christians are guilty in this respect.
SABBATH TRAVELING
Take, for instance, the question of Sabbath traveling. I believe we are breaking God's laws by using the cars on Sunday and depriving conductors and others of their Sabbath." - D.L. Moody
Well, I am not blue in the face yet! Bob just didn't read far enough into Moody's article! Under the heading of how the Sabbath was to be observed and Sabbath traveling we find the above interpretative statements of the fourth commandment! Moody argued that the Christian Sabbath was "Sunday" but argued as well, that there are some whose occupation does not permit them to observe Sunday as their Sabbath and in such cases they ought to pick some other day.
"Businessmen travel on the Sabbath so as to be on hand for business Monday morning. But if they do so God will not prosper them.
Work is good for man and is commanded, "Six days shalt thou labor"; but overwork and work on the Sabbath takes away the best thing he has. " - D.L. Moody
"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday," - D.L. Moody
"SABBATH DESECRATION
Men seem to think they have a right to change the holy day into a holiday. The young have more temptations to break the Sabbath than we had forty years ago. There are three great temptations: first the trolley car, that will take you off into the country for a nickel to have a day of recreation; second, the bicycle, which is leading a good many Christian men to give up their Sabbath and spend the day on excursions; and the third, the Sunday newspaper.
Twenty years ago Christian people in Chicago would have been horrified if anyone had prophesied that all the theaters would be open every Sabbath; but that is what has come to pass. If it had been prophesied twenty years ago that Christian men would take a wheel and go off on Sunday morning and be gone all day on an excursion, Christians would have been horrified and would have said it was impossible; but that is what is going on today all over the country.
THE SUNDAY NEWSPAPER
With regard to the Sunday newspaper, I know all the arguments that are brought in its favor- that the work on it is done during the week, that it is the Monday paper that causes Sunday work, and so on. But there are two hundred thousand newsboys selling the paper on Sunday. Would you like to have your boy one of them? Men are kept running trains in order to distribute the papers. Would you like your Sabbath taken away from you? If not, then practice the Golden Rule, and don't touch the papers.
Their contents make them unfit for reading any day, not to say Sunday. Some New York dailies advertise Sunday editions of sixty pages. Many dirty pieces of scandal in this and other countries are raked up and put into them. "Eight pages of fun!"- that is splendid reading for Sunday, isn't it? Even when a so-called sermon is printed, it is completely buried by the fiction and news matter. It is time that ministers went into their pulpits and preached against Sunday newspapers if they haven't done it already.
Put the man in the scales that buys and reads Sunday papers. After reading them for two or three hours he might go and hear the best sermon in the world, but you couldn't preach anything into him. His mind is filled up with what he has read, and there is no room for thoughts of God. I believe that the archangel Gabriel himself could not make an impression on an audience that has its head full of such trash. If you bored a hole into a man's head, you could not inject any thoughts of God and heaven.
I don't believe that the publishers would allow their own children to read them. Why then should they give them to my children and to yours?
A merchant who advertises in Sunday papers is not keeping the Sabbath. - D.L. Moody
All the above quotes were taken from the same article that Bob claims you would have to look to your "blue in the face" to find anywhere Moody interpreted the fourth commandment Sabbath to be Sunday. Well, I am not blue in the face and could quote a whole bunch more of easy reading in the same article.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Walter than accuses me of lying by posting Spurgeon verbatim.
How odd.
So I ask that you prove it - not merely assert such wild accusations.
Spurgeon quotes the OT in the list I gave - not the NT.
His editing and bending of the text - pertains to the OT text he is quoting -- here it is "again".
A great many readers will notice that his text is the OT -- not the NT.
49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Too late to pretend that this is Spurgeon throwing out the OT and only quoting the NT.
He does not take the Ten Commandments are "dead" solution so popular today.
He takes the road of AFFIRMING the OT and NT but then adding his own man made tradition of editing and bending the OT text as per the dictates of man-made tradition. It is only in that last step there I differ with Spurgeon.
You may actually have the clarity to join me in that regard.
in Christ,
Bob
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Walter you keep coming back with a nonsense argument of the form "yes but Moody watered down the Word of God to say -- one in seven and even that one in seven is only valid if you promise never to pick God's real Sabbath as the seventh day".
Have you even thought that through?
Are you sure you want to go with that as your solution??
Are you really that opposed to the Word of God??
If so -- James 3:4 comes to mind.
in Christ,
Bob
Dr. Walter
New Member
You are absolutely delusional!!! Spurgeon was not an idiot! Nothing he said concerning the fourth commandment contradicted his own position! He never said the fourth commandment regarded the seventh day "OF THE WEEK"!!! Never!
I never said the ten commandments are dead! I never said the fourth commandment is abolished! I take the EXACT same position as Spurgeon did both in the Old Testament interpretation as well as in the New Testament!
You simply either cannot read English or are so delusional you cannot admit your simply wrong!
I believe men like Spurgeon and Calvin wrote about the VALIDITY of the Fourth Commandment, without properly understanding either the Commandment or what they wrote. In fact, the entire Christian Church has NEVER understood the Fourth Commandment rightfully. The Seventh-day Adventists the least of all, correct Seventh Day or no correct Seventh Day.
And no one ever WILL understand the Fourth Commandment until from Genesis 2 to the Gospels and Revelation as the LAST books in time of the Revelation of God's Redeeming history, is understood in the LIGHT OF JESUS CHRIST EXCLUSIVELY.
It is an undeniable anomaly great men of God spoke of another day than the Seventh Day of the week as God's 'Sabbath Day'. Good children of God to this day still believe and speak in that way --- like MY people, SOLID CALVINISTS WHO STAND SAVED AND SAFE in the Grace of God. It REMAINS enigmatic UNTIL people show LACK OF HONESTY AND INTEGRITY; then it becomes clear BIAS RULES and God's pure Word is spurned and discarded because the acceptance with men weigh heavier than acceptance with God.
And no one ever WILL understand the Fourth Commandment until from Genesis 2 to the Gospels and Revelation as the LAST books in time of the Revelation of God's Redeeming history, is understood in the LIGHT OF JESUS CHRIST EXCLUSIVELY.
It is an undeniable anomaly great men of God spoke of another day than the Seventh Day of the week as God's 'Sabbath Day'. Good children of God to this day still believe and speak in that way --- like MY people, SOLID CALVINISTS WHO STAND SAVED AND SAFE in the Grace of God. It REMAINS enigmatic UNTIL people show LACK OF HONESTY AND INTEGRITY; then it becomes clear BIAS RULES and God's pure Word is spurned and discarded because the acceptance with men weigh heavier than acceptance with God.
Dr. Walter
New Member
The biblical and historical evidence is there to easily understand the fourth commandment IF bias is set aside. Spurgeon understood it correctly and that is why both Saturdarians and Sunday advocates quote him.
Spurgeon realized that the "seventh day" had no inherent moral value other than God's sovereign choice based upon God's purpose. He realized the fourth commandment was never put in terms "of the week" but only six working days followed and preceded by the seventh day. He also realized that within this principle there was application for both the Old and New Covenant Sabbath but the New Covenant Sabbath being a BETTER observance based upon a BETTER work of God in the Person of Jesus Christ. The new was concealed in the Old and revealed in the New Covenant. It was concealed in the Old as in the fact that the seventh month was the most holy month for the Jews and yet it was also the first month of the new year. It was concealed in the Old as the feasts of Leviticus were determined to emphasize the first day of the week more than the seventh day of the week in the lunar month. It was concealed in the Old by the fact that the second giving of the law gave no reference to creation but to what typified redemption in Christ.
It is revealed in the New as the resurrection day (Psa. 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11) as the first day of the week. It was the emphasis for every congregational worship (Acts 2:1; 20:7; I Cor. 16:1-2) and intentional usupation of the Sunday worship of Ceasar applied to Christ's resurrection day (Rev. 1:10).
It is revealed clearly in the first three hundred years of Ante-Nicene writings.
It will be revealed as the ETERNAL day of Jubilee beyond the SEVENTH Thousand year millennial and thus revealed in the Old seven sets of seven years followed by the year of Jubilee or the FIRST year after the 7th and last set of sevens in Levitucus 25.
It is there clear to see to all who have eyes to see.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Here we have Spurgeon quoting the OT text and also referencing the pre-church pre-cross teaching of Christ.
Spurgeon said --
Money gained on Sabbath-day is a loss, I dare to say. No blessing can come with that which comes to us, on the devil’s back, by our willful disobedience of God’s law. The loss of health by neglect of rest, and the loss of soul by neglect of hearing the gospel, soon turn all seeming profit into real loss." - C.H. Spurgeon
"Salt Cellars": Salt Cellars, C.H. Spurgeon (Vol. 2 M-Z)
FROM: CHARLES SPURGEON'S CATECHISM
(WHAT IS TO BE TAUGHT TO CHILDREN):
49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
50 Q What is required in the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment requires the keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12).
51 Q How is the Sabbath to be sanctified?
A The Sabbath is to be sanctified by a holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days (Le 23:3), and spending the whole time in the public and private exercises of God's worship (Ps 92:1,2 Isa 58:13,14), except so much as is taken up in the works of necessity and mercy (Mt 12:11,12).
"...the reason why people become Hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians, is because some, who profess to be Calvinists, often keep back part of the truth, and do not, as Paul did, "declare all the counsel of God"; they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth. Such preachers as John Newton, and in later times, your own Christmas Evans, were men who preached the whole truth of God; they kept back nothing that God has revealed; and, as the result of their preaching, Antinomianism could not find a foot-hold anywhere." (Charles Spurgeon, Gospel of Sovereign Grace).
"It is to be feared that some zealous brethren have preached the doctrine of justification by faith not only so boldly and so plainly, but also so baldly and so out of all connection with other truth, that they have led men into presumptuous confidences, and have appeared to lend their countenance to a species of Antinomianism very much to be dreaded. From a dead, fruitless, inoperative faith we may earnestly pray, "Good Lord, deliver us," yet may we be unconsciously, fostering it." (Charles Spurgeon, Faith and Regeneration)
=======================
A great many readers will notice that his text is the OT -- not the NT.
49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
And Bible students will note that in Ex 16 God says "Tomorrow is the Sabbath" and had it rain Manna 6 days - of HIS choosing and then no manna on THE Sabbath - the Day of HIS choosing.
Too late to pretend that this is Spurgeon throwing out the OT and only quoting the NT.
He does not take the Ten Commandments are "dead" solution so popular today.
He takes the road of AFFIRMING the OT and NT but then adding his own man made tradition of editing and bending the OT text as per the dictates of man-made tradition. It is only in that last step there I differ with Spurgeon.
You may actually have the clarity to join me in that regard.
---------------------
As I have already stated --
In this quote below - Spurgeon argues for Sabbath commandment keeping, not "commandment breaking".
Walter complains that we should only keep God's commandments if we "edit them" according to man-made-tradition so that they no longer apply as God spoke them.
How sad.
I agree with many of Spurgeon's points in that quote - but I do not agree with Walter's "only follow the Bible if you can first edit the Bible" ideas.
--------------------------------------------
However -- never to be left without some kind of ad hominem "rant" as the solution for every difficult problem for his views - Walter comes back with --
It would serve you "better" to address the actual points in the post - as odd as that must sound to you at this point.
Walter appears to "imagine" that the OT text said -
The fourth commandment is,
"Remember A Seventh-day of your choosing - to call it Sabbath day and to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but A seventy day of your chossing is to be your Sabbath: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day of HIS choosing - but now offers you the same choice of selecting and blessing and sanctifying a seventh day of YOUR choosing. Any day will do -- just pick one in seven and no need to link your reason for choosing it to My creation week. Pick any reason that happens to come to mind."
in Christ,
Bob
Spurgeon said --
Money gained on Sabbath-day is a loss, I dare to say. No blessing can come with that which comes to us, on the devil’s back, by our willful disobedience of God’s law. The loss of health by neglect of rest, and the loss of soul by neglect of hearing the gospel, soon turn all seeming profit into real loss." - C.H. Spurgeon
"Salt Cellars": Salt Cellars, C.H. Spurgeon (Vol. 2 M-Z)
FROM: CHARLES SPURGEON'S CATECHISM
(WHAT IS TO BE TAUGHT TO CHILDREN):
49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
50 Q What is required in the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment requires the keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12).
51 Q How is the Sabbath to be sanctified?
A The Sabbath is to be sanctified by a holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days (Le 23:3), and spending the whole time in the public and private exercises of God's worship (Ps 92:1,2 Isa 58:13,14), except so much as is taken up in the works of necessity and mercy (Mt 12:11,12).
"...the reason why people become Hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians, is because some, who profess to be Calvinists, often keep back part of the truth, and do not, as Paul did, "declare all the counsel of God"; they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth. Such preachers as John Newton, and in later times, your own Christmas Evans, were men who preached the whole truth of God; they kept back nothing that God has revealed; and, as the result of their preaching, Antinomianism could not find a foot-hold anywhere." (Charles Spurgeon, Gospel of Sovereign Grace).
"It is to be feared that some zealous brethren have preached the doctrine of justification by faith not only so boldly and so plainly, but also so baldly and so out of all connection with other truth, that they have led men into presumptuous confidences, and have appeared to lend their countenance to a species of Antinomianism very much to be dreaded. From a dead, fruitless, inoperative faith we may earnestly pray, "Good Lord, deliver us," yet may we be unconsciously, fostering it." (Charles Spurgeon, Faith and Regeneration)
=======================
A great many readers will notice that his text is the OT -- not the NT.
49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?
A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
And Bible students will note that in Ex 16 God says "Tomorrow is the Sabbath" and had it rain Manna 6 days - of HIS choosing and then no manna on THE Sabbath - the Day of HIS choosing.
Too late to pretend that this is Spurgeon throwing out the OT and only quoting the NT.
He does not take the Ten Commandments are "dead" solution so popular today.
He takes the road of AFFIRMING the OT and NT but then adding his own man made tradition of editing and bending the OT text as per the dictates of man-made tradition. It is only in that last step there I differ with Spurgeon.
You may actually have the clarity to join me in that regard.
---------------------
As I have already stated --
In this quote below - Spurgeon argues for Sabbath commandment keeping, not "commandment breaking".
Walter complains that we should only keep God's commandments if we "edit them" according to man-made-tradition so that they no longer apply as God spoke them.
How sad.
I agree with many of Spurgeon's points in that quote - but I do not agree with Walter's "only follow the Bible if you can first edit the Bible" ideas.
--------------------------------------------
However -- never to be left without some kind of ad hominem "rant" as the solution for every difficult problem for his views - Walter comes back with --
It would serve you "better" to address the actual points in the post - as odd as that must sound to you at this point.
Walter appears to "imagine" that the OT text said -
The fourth commandment is,
"Remember A Seventh-day of your choosing - to call it Sabbath day and to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but A seventy day of your chossing is to be your Sabbath: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day of HIS choosing - but now offers you the same choice of selecting and blessing and sanctifying a seventh day of YOUR choosing. Any day will do -- just pick one in seven and no need to link your reason for choosing it to My creation week. Pick any reason that happens to come to mind."
in Christ,
Bob
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:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Dr. Walter
New Member
Of course Bob is completely misrepresenting my position as well as Spurgeon's position. I have never ever argued for a "seventh-day of your choosing" and Bob knows that. Neither did Spurgeon argue for the "seventh day OF THE WEEK" either!
"As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished." - Spurgeon, Baptist Confession of Faith - The Sabbath and Worship
Bob, why don't you quote this interpretation from Spurgeon - "ONE DAY IN SEVEN FOR A SABBATH"! Of course that wouldn't suite your intentional perversion of Spurgeon to make Spurgeon say what you want him to say and Spurgeon NEVER EVER says "the seventh day OF THE WEEK" - NEVER EVER!
This is Spurgeons own comments that he gives in the footenotes to both the 1689 London Confession and which he repeats in the 1732 Philadelphia Baptist Confession of faith. Here Spurgeon gives you his view of the fourth commandment under the Old Covenant as well as under the New Covenant. Does Bob care what Spurgeon really believes? No! He will ignore and twist this as he has ignored and twisted every other quotation from Spurgeon. Spurgeon NEVER interprets the fourth commandent to be restricted to the seventh day "OF THE WEEK" - Never! Read Bob's quotation of Spurgeon and you will NEVER find that expression "OF THE WEEK" - Never!
Spurgeon's interpretation is exactly my own interpretation as given above.
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Dr. Walter
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Every Sabbath should be a thanksgiving Sunday, for Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week, and we ought to give thanks every time we celebrate his resurrection. - C.H. Spurgeon, A Question for Communicants, August 7th 1892
GE:
Dear Dr Walter, WHAT IS THIS ...
"Spurgeon realized that the "seventh day" had no inherent moral value other than God's sovereign choice based upon God's purpose. He realized the fourth commandment was never put in terms "of the week" but only six working days followed and preceded by the seventh day" ...?!
To me, it sounds like a good deal of insanity.
GE:
I believe Spurgeon was HONESTLY MISTAKEN, SIMPLY.
Spurgeon not once in his life was privileged with IT; so he is blameless...
GE:
Goodness, Dr Walter, what is this: "From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day" ?!
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