Faulty Intelligence?

[El_Guero]

Systematically slandering intelligence reports that do not agree with the liberal agenda is "not 'dissent'" - it is wrong . . .

:wavey:

The truth is that America went to war against an evil dictator that had routinely violated the terms (conditions for) of peace . . . that is an internationally accepted reason for war.

I was against it then. I do not like it now. But, I won't betray the confidence of our men and women that are laying down their lives.

They deserve our support so that they can come home safe from a victory.

 

[The Galatian]

The point is not that Saddam was a bad guy. The point isn't that the troops haven't performed magnificently in spite of mismanagement and incompetence in their deployment and supply.

The point is, as yoiu saw, that any intelligence that threw doubt on the claims of Bush and Co. was systematically suppressed.

It turns out that the suppressed intelligence was right, and could have saved us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. It is in no way betraying the good men and women fighting there, to point out that they were put in harm's way for no good reason, and under false pretenses.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

It's OK Galatian, let those like Carpro and El Guero say what they want.

They lost the election and now, thanks to the democrats, we will find out just how deep this Bush-Cheney deception goes.

If the facts warrant, I hope they impeach both of these incompetent men!

 

[El_Guero]

No . . . I did not loose an election.

However, the soldiers in the field did loose an election.

And unless the liberals that put us in this war (without their votes we WOULD NOT BE IN THIS WAR) change their tune - Iraq will become a new Vietnam.

The liberals in congress that just a year ago were using the rhetoric that the President was not sending enough troops are NOW saying that they will cut the funding for more troops.

And therein is mismanagement and extreme lack of moral courage that you want to blame someone for.

It's OK Galatian, let those like Carpro and El Guero say what they want.

They lost the election and now, thanks to the democrats, we will find out just how deep this Bush-Cheney deception goes.

If the facts warrant, I hope they impeach both of these incompetent men!

 

[The Galatian]

The troops in the field were not running for anything, nor did they campaign for any candidates. They are merely trying to do the mission given to them, as best they can. They don't consider if it's a sensible one, or if the person giving orders is even competent. They swore to obey and carry out whatever lawful mission is given them.

If the postelection sacking of Rumsfeld and the Bush decision to pay more attention to the officers leading our troops leads to a speedier end to the war, then the troops will have won the election.

Let's all pray that happens.

 

[El_Guero]

We are closer on this subject than we are apart.

But, it scares me that the politicians that were complaining that the president was incompetent because he was not sending more troops are now trying to pull the money from the troops.

It scares me that we are sliding towards another Vietnam with no decent option.

The troops in the field were not running for anything, nor did they campaign for any candidates. They are merely trying to do the mission given to them, as best they can. They don't consider if it's a sensible one, or if the person giving orders is even competent. They swore to obey and carry out whatever lawful mission is given them.

If the postelection sacking of Rumsfeld and the Bush decision to pay more attention to the officers leading our troops leads to a speedier end to the war, then the troops will have won the election.

Let's all pray that happens.

 

[The Galatian]

Overwhelming force at the beginning of the occupation would have worked, as numerous generals told Bush & Co. They were publicly ridiculed for their opinions. It's a lot harder to stop a civil war in progress than it is to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Many troops died needlessly, because Rumsfeld ignored the wisdom of his officers.

The "surge" amounts to one last roll of the dice. The public is seething over this, and I have to say, most of them seem to be more angry at Bush than I am, and certainly they are more interested in a quick departure than I think is advisable.

It might be that we're in luck, and the bad guys are about out of will. But I wouldn't count on it. Remember Tet? Crushing defeat for the NVA and Viet Cong (the latter effectively ceased to exist as a fighting force after Tet) But it didn't matter. The Vietnamese shrugged off the losses, and kept on fighting. The American people finally had enough and put an end to it.

If we lose in Iraq, it will be like that.

 

[carpro]

It might be that we're in luck, and the bad guys are about out of will. But I wouldn't count on it. Remember Tet? Crushing defeat for the NVA and Viet Cong (the latter effectively ceased to exist as a fighting force after Tet) But it didn't matter. The Vietnamese shrugged off the losses, and kept on fighting. The American people finally had enough and put an end to it.

If we lose in Iraq, it will be like that.

The Vietnamese held out because they knew liberals in the U.S. were helping them win the war.

The "bad guys" in Iraq know the same thing. All they had to do was watch this week's debate in Congress. Democrats are setting their sights on losing and the "bad guys" know it.

 

[Daisy]

The Vietnamese held out because they knew liberals in the U.S. were helping them win the war.

No, it was the Chinese who were helping them win the war and the Nixon administration which didn't want to own Vietnam.

The "bad guys" in Iraq know the same thing. All they had to do was watch this week's debate in Congress. Democrats are setting their sights on losing and the "bad guys" know it.

I get the impression that they are too busy fighting a civil war to have much time to watch American political tv. Little water and erratic electricity, but their cable/satellite tv is intact?

 

[El_Guero]

Yes,

The liberal congress DID ADD to the North Vietnamese determination and public relations defeat that ended the Vietnamese war.

Your impression is far from what is happening.

No, it was the Chinese who were helping them win the war and the Nixon administration which didn't want to own Vietnam.

I get the impression that they are too busy fighting a civil war to have much time to watch American political tv. Little water and erratic electricity, but their cable/satellite tv is intact?

 

[El_Guero]

Again . . .

20,000 felons . . . thousands of foreign fighters . . . and maybe as many as a hundred thousand terrorists and sympathizers - DO NOT MAKE A CIVIL WAR.

 

[Daisy]

Again . . .

20,000 felons . . . thousands of foreign fighters . . . and maybe as many as a hundred thousand terrorists and sympathizers - DO NOT MAKE A CIVIL WAR.

That's true, it's the native Shiites and Sunnis and Kurds executing each other that does.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

And yet President Bush came to the same conclusion of the following:


Former President Clinton
Sentator Hillary Clinton
Senator John Kerry
The European Intelligence community


When did they agree on this. In 1998. If you accuse President Bush of lying or misrepresenting intelligence then you need to include the list above in your accusations.

A Senator does not have access to all the information a President has access to. I don't believe the European Intelligence community were at all in agreement. In fact, why did only the UK support us on invading Iraq? President Clinton did believe that there very well might have been WMD but not enough to start a war.

 

[El_Guero]

1. Yes, but that Former President did . . . and he has said repeatedly that based on the intel that Bush had - he would have invaded.

2. Because the French, Russians, and Germans were afraid that it would be discovered that they had helped build the facilities that saddam used to build WMD's?

A Senator does not have access to all the information a President has access to. I don't believe the European Intelligence community were at all in agreement. In fact, why did only the UK support us on invading Iraq? President Clinton did believe that there very well might have been WMD but not enough to start a war.

 

[LadyEagle]

10-page Thread closing warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 2:45 a.m. ET by one of the moderators.

Lady Eagle

 

[Phillip]

falsified documents

Would each and every one of you who believe that intentionally falsified documents. I would also like to "see" these falsified documents.

I'm not debating here. I would just like to see the real facts that this thread is being based on.

I am not saying that such documents do not exists, but in order to discuss this, I would like to see the "so-called"falsified documents."

I would also think that proof of falsified documents (for what ever reason -- in the guilty party would. The military does not take well to falsified reports.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Would each and every one of you who believe that intentionally falsified documents. I would also like to "see" these falsified documents.

I'm not debating here. I would just like to see the real facts that this thread is being based on.

I am not saying that such documents do not exists, but in order to discuss this, I would like to see the "so-called"falsified documents."

I would also think that proof of falsified documents (for what ever reason -- in the guilty party would. The military does not take well to falsified reports.

This should assist you in your quest...http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/04_1.html.

 

[Daisy]

Would each and every one of you who believe that intentionally falsified documents. I would also like to "see" these falsified documents.

The only intentionally falsified document mentioned was the Niger forgery. Faulty evidence is not the same as falsified documents.

I'm not debating here. I would just like to see the real facts that this thread is being based on.

I suggest you click on the links and read.

I am not saying that such documents do not exists, but in order to discuss this, I would like to see the "so-called"falsified documents."

In this entire thread, you are the first to mention "falsified documents", so I don't quite get what you mean by "so-called" (you're the only caller).

I would also think that proof of falsified documents (for what ever reason -- in the guilty party would.

I don't know what this sentence means.

The military does not take well to falsified reports.

Which is probably why so many military commanders have come out against this invasion.

 

[El_Guero]

Daisy

One of your better posts.

Wayne

 

[LadyEagle]

Closed. LE