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history lesson

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
//"Falling away in the Arms of Jesus"//

I meant 'Falling away into the Arms of Jesus'.
If we 'fall away' from earth at the rapture1/resurrection1
the how would one describe it. Is Jesus going to
catch us or not?

I guess the real question is NOT answered in
the Bible: When Jesus comes to get us 'in Jesus'
will His head be closer than His feet to the earth
or will His feet be closer than His head?
I don't know why this needs to be 'proved'
to someone who can't even come up with a dozen
good reasons why God is limited to one and only one
resurrection1 (followed closely by one and only one
rapture1 of all the dead people) at the Resurrection2.

Recall my definitions:
(feel free to make up your own definitions).

Rapture1 - 1 Cor 15 new body for alive people
Resurrection1 - 1 Cor 15 new body for dead people
Rapture2 - a Pretribulation eventby Jesus of
--- resurrection1 followed by a rapture1
Resurrection2 - A Post-tribulation event by Jesus of
--- resurrection1 followed by a rapture1
Resurrection3 - a resurrection of dead lost people
--- for assignment to everlasting punishment
--- (this resurrection3 is also called the SECOND DEATH)
Resurrection4 - The Rapture2 by Jesus + the
--- Resurrection2 by Jesus, book-ending the
--- Tribulation of the Evil Period.

At the Pretribulation Rapture2 there could be
as many as 400 Million living Saved People to
rapture1. Unless the Bible & John lied about the
meanness of the 'Beast from the Sea' & Peter
lied about the 'Antichrist' & Paul lied about
the 'man of Sin' -- then there could hardly be more than
maybe 10K folks that got overlooked by
the Killing Machine*. People locked in
fall out shelaters, abandoned in deep mines,
never pulled back from space, etc.

* the term 'Killing Machine' is NOT found in
the Bible - but it sure talks like that is what
the Beast from the Sea has.

Rev 13:11-15 And I beheld another beast comming vp out of the earth, and hee had two hornes like a lambe, and hee spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And hee doeth great wonders, so that hee maketh fire come downe from heauen on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiueth them that dwel on the earth, by the meanes of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an Image to the beast which had the wound by a sword, and did liue.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to giue life vnto the Image of the beast, that the Image of the beast should both speake, and cause that as many as would not worship the Image of the beast, should be killed.

The SDA official texts tell me that the two
horned beast from the earth that speaks
as a dragon is A BUFFALO (or was it one of the
offshoot sects that split off the SDA?) - In other
Word: the USofA. We can't live without the USofA
being the major player in the end times.

I've heard some who say:
the USofA will die in one day (with sub-Sarahan
Africa) in a Chicom/Russian lead nuclear war
- the rapture2 disguised by the nuclear war.
This would also kill 1/3 of all human life, destroy
1/3 the grass, etc. The 88 Reasons Why the Rapture
will be in 1988
says on 23-25 Sept 1988
the Nuclear War will happen - you can't tell only which
day or hour - else Edgar C. Wisenant would have given
us better than a three day spread ;)
I wish he wouldn't have picked the day I was
45-years-old :( (actually I didn't have a slack in my
reading load until the summer of 1989) I think
'no man knows the day or hour' means nobody knows
the hour, day, week, fortnight, month,
year, decade, century, etc. that the rapture2 will
occur (of course this is before it happens, afterwards
the 3.3% of people left on earth will know the date
and everybody in heaven!!!

(recall throughout the Great Tribulation Period
[the unadultrated Wrath of God] the Jewish
Israeli people are protected by God in the wilderness
from the meanness of antichrist.)
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Ed Edwards said:
//"Falling away in the Arms of Jesus"//

I meant 'Falling away into the Arms of Jesus'.

No question.

I have always said that you score high marks on describing what you want the case to have been in scripture -

in Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Bob said
2Thess 2 (NASB)
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,[/b]
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for
it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed[/b], the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.


What the Bible calls "The Apostacy" you re-invent as "our Falling into the Arms of Jesus".




An easy example of that "falling" as Paul uses the term (exegesis being practiced here) is Gal 5 "you have Fallen from Grace" which can not be wrenched into "you have fallen from Grace into the Arms of Christ". In 2Thess 2 "our gathering together to Him" is the terminology Paul uses for the Rapture and NOT "falling away and the man of sin revealed".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Edwards

I didn't do that. The Bible did:


As I said - you get high marks for always stating your own POV and what you had hoped to find to be true in the text.




Ed Edwards said:
I meant 'Falling away into the Arms of Jesus'.
If we 'fall away' from earth at the rapture1/resurrection1
the how would one describe it. Is Jesus going to
catch us or not?



As I said - you get high marks for always stating your own POV and what you had hoped to find to be true in the text.

There is no discussion at all in scripture along the lines of "saints will one day fall away from the earth - but just in time Jesus will catch them". No "you fell but I caught you" discussion on saints leaving earth.

Don't get me wrong - I fully believe that 1Thess 4 certainly describes the saints being raptured from earth up to meet the Lord in the air and then taken to heaven.

But it is NOT described as "you fell but no worry - I caught you" rather it is "our gathering together to Him" 2Thess 2.

Ed

I guess the real question is NOT answered in
the Bible: When Jesus comes to get us 'in Jesus'
will His head be closer than His feet to the earth
or will His feet be closer than His head?

No - the "real question" that is still waiting to be answered is why you insist that some Bible text says we "Fall away into the arms of Jesus".

And the second question on the heels of that one - is how in the world you ever got to the point of trying to get that ideah from 2Thess2 when as we see in the text -- it says nothing of the kind!

And of course the 3rd point - getting us back on track is that 2thess 2 DOES say that "our gethering together to him DOES NOT COME until the apostacy comes first" --

I.E no PTR.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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jilphn1022

New Member
I have been reading this thread

and I think that Bob Ryan and Ed Edwards are keeping this history lesson lively!

You are both so nice to each other too!
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
It is hard to be mean to a person when you pray a prayer
like this for them each & every day.

May all God's best blessings be showered upon
Brother BobRyan, his family, and his ministry.
May this be done so that we might give all the
more honor and glory unto our blessed Lord
and graceful Savior: Messiah Yeshua. Amen!
 

jilphn1022

New Member
This is so sweet!

Ed Edwards said:
It is hard to be mean to a person when you pray a prayer
like this for them each & every day.

May all God's best blessings be showered upon
Brother BobRyan, his family, and his ministry.
May this be done so that we might give all the
more honor and glory unto our blessed Lord
and graceful Savior: Messiah Yeshua. Amen!


I am sure that BobRyan would have the same prayer for you!
And I would say the same prayer for you and your family too!
You are very special grandparent to be raising two of your grand
children! May they be a blessing to you. I am sure they appreciate
all you do for them and your love for them too.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Ed Edwards said:
It is hard to be mean to a person when you pray a prayer
like this for them each & every day.

May all God's best blessings be showered upon
Brother BobRyan, his family, and his ministry.
May this be done so that we might give all the
more honor and glory unto our blessed Lord
and graceful Savior: Messiah Yeshua. Amen!

God's blessings to you Ed and to your family as we approach the Christmas season and remembrance of the birth of Christ.

I appreciate the opportunity that you provide to compare the PTR view with the Post-Trib-Rapture view and the fact that you understand clearly that Christians who accept and respect each other can still have a difference in doctrinal positions.

I have been on the road for the past week or so -- and have had very little time to relax in lively debate -- but my time is freeing up and so -- I will likely be hanging around here on a more regular basis once again.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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