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Reasons Why Professed Christians Fail To See or Grasp The Doctrines Of Grace

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Zaatar71

Active Member
Select a number, then support or oppose it biblically; If you think of other such reasons, feel free to offer your own reasons and explanation

1] They have never studied it for themselves

2] They have been mislead by a false teacher, who never understood the issues for themselves

3] They go on anti- Calvinist websites, and drink in the error ,unchecked by someone who understands the position

4] True spiritual understanding comes by The Spirit of God. They deny this is needful

5] Christians who do believe these truths, have not studied it well enough to communicate it to those who oppose these truths

6] Some struggle with the word of God emotionally, so this hinders them from engaging their mind to prayer and study

7 ] Some lack at some level the mental faculties to connect the Spiritual dots of theology.

8] When offered truth by scripture, or confessions of faith, they turn and make excuses, it is man made, it is philosophy, etc.

9] Sadly some who profess to be Christians, are still men of flesh, natural and unsaved, so truth will not be found in them

10} Others will repeat foolish myths that they have heard or read, without biblical support
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Select a number, then support or oppose it biblically; If you think of other such reasons, feel free to offer your own reasons and explanation

1] They have never studied it for themselves

2] They have been mislead by a false teacher, who never understood the issues for themselves

3] They go on anti- Calvinist websites, and drink in the error ,unchecked by someone who understands the position

4] True spiritual understanding comes by The Spirit of God. They deny this is needful

5] Christians who do believe these truths, have not studied it well enough to communicate it to those who oppose these truths

6] Some struggle with the word of God emotionally, so this hinders them from engaging their mind to prayer and study

7 ] Some lack at some level the mental faculties to connect the Spiritual dots of theology.

8] When offered truth by scripture, or confessions of faith, they turn and make excuses, it is man made, it is philosophy, etc.

9] Sadly some who profess to be Christians, are still men of flesh, natural and unsaved, so truth will not be found in them

10} Others will repeat foolish myths that they have heard or read, without biblical support

You forgot one ZA.
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy.

I have seen many of the C/R view disagree with what I have said but I have yet to see any show that it is wrong.


"If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.

If Calvinism is true:
The ultimate reason most resist it is because God sovereignly and unchangeably decreed their resistance for His own glory.

The idea that God unchangeably predestines His own children to reject His own truth for His own glory is so intuitively false that we don’t need to refute it.
We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what Calvinism entails so they know to reject it." L. Flowers
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you think of other such reasons, feel free to offer your own reasons and explanation

I think Paul pretty much covers it here:

Romans Chapter 9 - American Standard Version - SpeedBible by johnhurt.com

14​

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

19​

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
Here is an expanded list;

Select a number, then support or oppose it biblically; If you think of other such reasons, feel free to offer your own reasons and explanation

1] They have never studied it for themselves

2] They have been mislead by a false teacher, who never understood the issues for themselves

3] They go on anti- Calvinist websites, and drink in the error ,unchecked by someone who understands the position

4] True spiritual understanding comes by The Spirit of God. They deny this is needful

5] Christians who do believe these truths, have not studied it well enough to communicate it to those who oppose these truths

6] Some struggle with the word of God emotionally, so this hinders them from engaging their mind to prayer and study

7 ] Some lack at some level the mental faculties to connect the Spiritual dots of theology.

8] When offered truth by scripture, or confessions of faith, they turn and make excuses, it is man made, it is philosophy, etc.

9] Sadly some who profess to be Christians, are still men of flesh, natural and unsaved, so truth will not be found in them

10} Others will repeat foolish myths that they have heard or read, without biblical support

11 ] People fail to come to truth by not understanding the vocabulary needed to understand the truth

12] people seek to insult the messenger, so as to avoid the message

13]People will avoid truth by ascribing it to some philosophy like gnostic errors.

14] People avoid truth saying it is "pagan" philosophy

15] Some people are what the bible calls truth suppressors.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
Silverhair touches on many of these, like here. he says;
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy so Silverhair would fit into -

13]People will avoid truth by ascribing it to some philosophy like gnostic errors.

14] People avoid truth saying it is "pagan" philosophy
By repeating these charges, it does not advance the discussion. These charges are never substantiated

Silverhair thinks he is onto something;
["If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.]
He attempts to challenge the position, but seems to left his scriptures outside the discussion
He does not check on any of the reasons, because he does not like
 
Last edited:

Zaatar71

Active Member
You forgot one ZA.
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy.

I have seen many of the C/R view disagree with what I have said but I have yet to see any show that it is wrong.


"If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.

If Calvinism is true:
The ultimate reason most resist it is because God sovereignly and unchangeably decreed their resistance for His own glory.

The idea that God unchangeably predestines His own children to reject His own truth for His own glory is so intuitively false that we don’t need to refute it.
We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what Calvinism entails so they know to reject it." L. Flowers
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
SH, repeats errors
Silverhair touches on many of these, like here. he says;
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy so Silverhair would fit into -

10} Others will repeat foolish myths that they have heard or read, without biblical support


13]People will avoid truth by ascribing it to some philosophy like gnostic errors.

14] People avoid truth saying it is "pagan" philosophy
By repeating these charges, it does not advance the discussion. These charges are never substantiated
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
You forgot one ZA.
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy.

I have seen many of the C/R view disagree with what I have said but I have yet to see any show that it is wrong.


"If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.

If Calvinism is true:
The ultimate reason most resist it is because God sovereignly and unchangeably decreed their resistance for His own glory.

The idea that God unchangeably predestines His own children to reject His own truth for His own glory is so intuitively false that we don’t need to refute it.
We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what Calvinism entails so they know to reject it." L. Flowers

Notice he quotes from a know anti Calvinist website.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
You forgot one ZA.
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy.

I have seen many of the C/R view disagree with what I have said but I have yet to see any show that it is wrong.


"If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.

If Calvinism is true:
The ultimate reason most resist it is because God sovereignly and unchangeably decreed their resistance for His own glory.

The idea that God unchangeably predestines His own children to reject His own truth for His own glory is so intuitively false that we don’t need to refute it.
We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what Calvinism entails so they know to reject it." L. Flowers
I was thinking the same thing. Calvinism is reformed Roman Catholic doctrine.

I was a Calvinist for some time after seminary (not because of seminary).

But knowing the history of how Calvin and Beza developed the religion I could never again embrace it. Calvinism does incorporate secular philosophy (Calvin studied humanistic judicial philosophy prior to his conversion...humanism being a revival of early philosophy rather than how we take it today).

But at its core Calvinism is built on revising Thomas Aquinas' doctrine of Atonement. Everything concerning the "Five Points" stems from this error.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
I was thinking the same thing. Calvinism is reformed Roman Catholic doctrine.

I was a Calvinist for some time after seminary (not because of seminary).

But knowing the history of how Calvin and Beza developed the religion I could never again embrace it. Calvinism does incorporate secular philosophy (Calvin studied humanistic judicial philosophy prior to his conversion...humanism being a revival of early philosophy rather than how we take it today).

But at its core Calvinism is built on revising Thomas Aquinas' doctrine of Atonement. Everything concerning the "Five Points" stems from this error.
I do not see Calvinists anywhere who agree with your assertions. These seem to be your own unique, views. You of course are welcome to your view. Thanks for your input!
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
In a soon to close thread Silverhair offered this;
{God's foreknowledge is not election ZA, there is your first error.]

Here Silverhair commits the common error, of not understanding the vocabulary used. Many have pointed out that God foreknows persons, not that this term means God has to look forward down a time tunnel to learn something. To ignore the correct , biblical meaning of the term will not lead to truth.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
So what is your point ZA? Did you expect me to quote from a pro calvinist web site?

That fact is that your religion is based on pagan philosophy that augustine brought into the church, do you deny this?
Hello SH, you say; [ Did you expect me to quote from a pro calvinist web site?]

Of course not! you avoid true websites because they would be to you like kryptonite is to Superman,lol

Next he repeats yet again this fable;
[That fact is that your religion is based on pagan philosophy that augustine brought into the church, do you deny this?]

These Truths existed at the time of Jesus and the Apostles. They existed in O.T. texts also, but without the NT. clarity!
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
In a soon to close thread Silverhair offered this;
{God's foreknowledge is not election ZA, there is your first error.]

Here Silverhair commits the common error, of not understanding the vocabulary used. Many have pointed out that God foreknows persons, not that this term means God has to look forward down a time tunnel to learn something. To ignore the correct , biblical meaning of the term will not lead to truth.

Ah the arrogance of the calvinist on display.

Foreknowledge, to know before. That does not require God to "look forward down a time tunnel to learn something". What you seem to have not understood is the God is Omniscient, He does not have to learn something ZA He always has known it.

In His foreknowledge He knows what all the free will choices will be. Even the logical mistakes that you continue to make.

Since you do not seem know the the biblical meaning of foreknowledge we can see that you have missed much of God's truth.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Hello SH, you say; [ Did you expect me to quote from a pro calvinist web site?]

Of course not! you avoid true websites because they would be to you like kryptonite is to Superman,lol

Next he repeats yet again this fable;
[That fact is that your religion is based on pagan philosophy that augustine brought into the church, do you deny this?]

These Truths existed at the time of Jesus and the Apostles. They existed in O.T. texts also, but without the NT. clarity!

I have looked at some of your calvinist web sites and what I have seen is the same false teaching that you and a few others have tried to push.

I do note that you have not provided anything to counter what I have shown many times on this board. Augustine brought in the pagan philosophy and calvin carried it forward as do those that continue to teach those views.

Denying the truth does not make it go away much as you would like it to.

The biblical truths are found in God's word but your TULIP/DoG are not those ZA.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
Ah the arrogance of the calvinist on display.

Foreknowledge, to know before. That does not require God to "look forward down a time tunnel to learn something". What you seem to have not understood is the God is Omniscient, He does not have to learn something ZA He always has known it.

In His foreknowledge He knows what all the free will choices will be. Even the logical mistakes that you continue to make.

Since you do not seem know the the biblical meaning of foreknowledge we can see that you have missed much of God's truth.

Here, SH, fails to understand the terms he is using. As we have explained to him before Foreknowledge is in relation to persons, those elected by God before the world was. He seeks to avoid this truth by travelling to Omniscience as we have pointed out this error in other threads. SH repeats the same error, and expects a different result. It is not going to happen.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
That fact is that your religion is based on pagan philosophy that augustine brought into the church, do you deny this?
I do. I arrived at 4 of the points as an atheist attending a Wesleyan Holiness church and reading the Bible to try and understand this whole Christianity thing … so whatever Augustine or John might have discovered, I doubt it was taught from the pulpit of the Church of God (Anderson, Indiana).
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
I have looked at some of your calvinist web sites and what I have seen is the same false teaching that you and a few others have tried to push.

I do note that you have not provided anything to counter what I have shown many times on this board. Augustine brought in the pagan philosophy and calvin carried it forward as do those that continue to teach those views.

Denying the truth does not make it go away much as you would like it to.

The biblical truths are found in God's word but your TULIP/DoG are not those ZA.
1]Here SH confesses he has tried to look at what He describes as Calvinist websites, but yet for several of the 15vreasons we have listed, he cannot see it.
2] Here he repeats the Augustine/pagan philosophy excuse. Truth will not be found here.

3] He then repeats what we have said to him, but he tries to turn it around. They say imitation is a form of flattery

4] then he denies the truths of the doctrines of grace, but again this does not help him come to truth.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
I do. I arrived at 4 of the points as an atheist attending a Wesleyan Holiness church and reading the Bible to try and understand this whole Christianity thing … so whatever Augustine or John might have discovered, I doubt it was taught from the pulpit of the Church of God (Anderson, Indiana).
Thanks for this helpful post. This shows how a person can come to truth by avoiding the 15 pitfalls that have been listed
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Silverhair touches on many of these, like here. he says;
That your man-made religion has it's basis in 4th century pagan philosophy so Silverhair would fit into -

13]People will avoid truth by ascribing it to some philosophy like gnostic errors.

14] People avoid truth saying it is "pagan" philosophy
By repeating these charges, it does not advance the discussion. These charges are never substantiated

Silverhair thinks he is onto something;
["If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.]
He attempts to challenge the position, but seems to left his scriptures outside the discussion
He does not check on any of the reasons, because he does not like

"If Calvinism is an error:
The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.

If Calvinism is true:
The ultimate reason most resist it is because God sovereignly and unchangeably decreed their resistance for His own glory.

The above quote say it all ZA.

Calvinism is a false religion in search of scriptural support.

As L. Flowers said "We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what Calvinism entails so they know to reject it"
 
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