So what's the difference between Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer?

[superwoman8977]

http://www.pfo.org/wan-star.htm
http://www.ontruth.com/joycemeyer.html
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m26ab.html
http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm


http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/meyer/wants.htm

Joyce Meyer is a false teacher.

see now I dont agree with you yes I have read the articles then if thats the case my moms pastor in the United Methodist Church in her town is a false teacher also. So probably is 90% of the pastors preaching today. My pastor on Sunday did a message on Fasting that really spoke to me was it false I dont think so because his lesson came straight from the word. If we sit there judging everyone trying to teach us we are never going to get to grow in Him. Did you ever think that preachers were put on the Earth to show us the way, help us along the way? I get alot out of her teaching because scripture backs up what she is saying plus I get a whole lot out of her testimony since I was a wife who wasnt treated nicely and so was she and the way she overcame it, I am hoping for the same outcome meaning overcoming this awful thing in my life and moving onto something sunnier. I dont judge a preacher when I listen I take notes, jot down the scripture they use and then study it more later. Thats how I have grown closer to the Lord over the last 18 months than I have ever in my life. Even though I am going through all I am going through I am closer to God in the word and in prayer now more than I have ever been. So instead of judging we need to let them be guides to us on our walk, we need to back up what they say with the scriptures and we need to allow ourselves to grow in Him.

 

[nodak]

Both are women preachers. Since Beth is Baptist we don't admit that.

Joyce Meyer is "word of faith" theology. That is a whole scary, false systematic theology basically of magic. Don't go there!!!!

Both seem to focus too much on the life of the believer rather than soul winning for my personal taste, but that IS JUST a matter of taste.

I don't care for either. BTDT with Beth Moore studies and do NOT care for them. She lost me during one tape when she was talking about people suffering, and named several things one could be in pain from but kept telling the audience to TRUST HER she had suffered more. My response was "how in the world can she make that claim. She is not omnipotent."

After that I kept noticing how often she wants us to put our trust in her. Nah, better put it in JESUS.

Now all that said, for some women, her courses are their first experience doing deep digging study. If she can get people doing that, I DO support her ministry.

 

[donnA]

see now I dont agree with you yes I have read the articles then if thats the case my moms pastor in the United Methodist Church in her town is a false teacher also. So probably is 90% of the pastors preaching today. My pastor on Sunday did a message on Fasting that really spoke to me was it false I dont think so because his lesson came straight from the word. If we sit there judging everyone trying to teach us we are never going to get to grow in Him. Did you ever think that preachers were put on the Earth to show us the way, help us along the way? I get alot out of her teaching because scripture backs up what she is saying plus I get a whole lot out of her testimony since I was a wife who wasnt treated nicely and so was she and the way she overcame it, I am hoping for the same outcome meaning overcoming this awful thing in my life and moving onto something sunnier. I dont judge a preacher when I listen I take notes, jot down the scripture they use and then study it more later. Thats how I have grown closer to the Lord over the last 18 months than I have ever in my life. Even though I am going through all I am going through I am closer to God in the word and in prayer now more than I have ever been. So instead of judging we need to let them be guides to us on our walk, we need to back up what they say with the scriptures and we need to allow ourselves to grow in Him.

False teacher always use the bible to back up what they say. Look at satan in scripture when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness.
But when they teach something not biblcal, taking scripture out of context, or just palin twisting scripture, teach things that can not possibly be scriptural, then they are false teachers. Some beleive a false teacher only teach falshoods, not so, thay have to add enough truth in order for people to listen to them, then they throw in the false teachings, cleverly disguised so that people who either approve of them , or are not well studied in biblical doctrines can not spot them as false.
Joyce Meyer teaches you are a little god, and you can create same as God did in Genesis 1, just by speaking. She says God created by faith, faith in what, there is nothing higher then Him to have faith in. She teaches Jesus paid for your sin not on the cross as the bible says, but He went to hell and paid for your sin there. These are false teachings. And according to scripture we are to stay away from false teachers.
What makes you think 90% of preachers are false teachers?

 

[donnA]

Both are women preachers. Since Beth is Baptist we don't admit that.

Joyce Meyer is "word of faith" theology. That is a whole scary, false systematic theology basically of magic. Don't go there!!!!

Both seem to focus too much on the life of the believer rather than soul winning for my personal taste, but that IS JUST a matter of taste.

I don't care for either. BTDT with Beth Moore studies and do NOT care for them. She lost me during one tape when she was talking about people suffering, and named several things one could be in pain from but kept telling the audience to TRUST HER she had suffered more. My response was "how in the world can she make that claim. She is not omnipotent."

After that I kept noticing how often she wants us to put our trust in her. Nah, better put it in JESUS.

Now all that said, for some women, her courses are their first experience doing deep digging study. If she can get people doing that, I DO support her ministry.

Beth is not a preacher. She is not ordained, she leads a women's ministry. Joyce is an ordained preacher. Big difference between being ordained a preacher and teaching and writting women's bible studies.
There are more then aspect of being a christian, witnessing is only one of them, living as a christian should is another, and this is what Beth tries to teach.
Beth does not teach nor claim to be omnipotent, nor that we are to put faith in her not God.
You'd have to know whats gone on in her life to understand some of what she says.

 

[LadyEagle]

Nobody is against the Lord blessing them, however, the gospel of Jesus Christ is not about your best life now. It is about how Christ SUFFERED and DIED on the cross. And how you will SUFFER and DIE if you choose to take up your cross and follow him.

The Bible says some people are gifted to preach the gospel and others are gifted for discipleship. I agree the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about Him suffering and dying on the cross. But the rest of the Gospel is that He Rose Again (you left that part off). There is a better day! It didn't end in the tomb!

After receiving the Gospel (the Good News), comes discipleship, a relationship, a walk. That means, yes, I may suffer and need to take up my cross to follow Him, but I also have a new relationship to God, I am an heir and a joint-heir with Jesus Christ. I am adopted by God. I am blessed by God. I am walking with God, talking with God, through Jesus Christ, my best friend. My Heavenly Father WANTS to bless me because I am His child, not because I deserve it, but because of my relationship with Him through His Son, Jesus Christ. He has given me His WORD, a Book loaded with promises!! Both for now and for the future! Prosperity and Blessings are a part of it! Prosperity and blessings are Biblical doctrine - all through the OT and NT. It is just as wrong to accept the Death and Burial of Jesus Christ and leave off the Resurrection and New Life and Blessings as it is to preach ONLY the Blessings and not the Relationship and how we receive that new relationship.

Joyce Meyer does not preach JUST about Prosperity and those of you who say she does have never seriously listened to her teachings and studied the Word with her, you are just going by what her critics have said because she doesn't claim to be Baptist and is not Lifeway's flavor of the month, IMO. Anybody can prooftext the Bible or someone's teachings, BTW.

I've read some blogs on the web who say Beth Moore is just another WOF preacher, too. So anybody can say anything about anybody, which is what happens even here on the BB. But it doesn't necessarily make it true.

 

[donnA]

LE what about direct quotes from her of her false teachings. Do you think your a god? Joyce says you are. Do you think Jesus paid for your sin on the corss, or in hell? Joyce says in hell, not the cross.

 

[Revmitchell]

oh come on....that is pretty accusatory without any proof.

What information do you need that Beth supports contemplative prayer or it origins? I will be glad to get you both if you like.

 

[superwoman8977]

False teacher always use the bible to back up what they say. Look at satan in scripture when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness.
But when they teach something not biblcal, taking scripture out of context, or just palin twisting scripture, teach things that can not possibly be scriptural, then they are false teachers. Some beleive a false teacher only teach falshoods, not so, thay have to add enough truth in order for people to listen to them, then they throw in the false teachings, cleverly disguised so that people who either approve of them , or are not well studied in biblical doctrines can not spot them as false.
Joyce Meyer teaches you are a little god, and you can create same as God did in Genesis 1, just by speaking. She says God created by faith, faith in what, there is nothing higher then Him to have faith in. She teaches Jesus paid for your sin not on the cross as the bible says, but He went to hell and paid for your sin there. These are false teachings. And according to scripture we are to stay away from false teachers.
What makes you think 90% of preachers are false teachers?

Because they use the scriptures to make their point. And according to you if they use scriptures they are "false teachers" And if you would look at the dates from your "articles" its back in 1990. I was in 7th grade in 1990 she has matured alot more since then. People change. God matures people. Did you ever think God has worked on her just like He works on us? I know when someone opens my eyes to something I am going to listen. Right now with all the crud going on in my life yeah I am listening to Beth and Joyce and Paula and several others only because right now I am seeking....my life is so horrible I am seeking to keep me going, keep me afloat

 

[LadyEagle]

And do you have a direct quote about Joyce saying we are gods? And about Jesus paying for our sins in hell? I believe Jesus did go to hell after the cross before the resurrection because the Bible says so.

 

[annsni]

Its not about prosperity although I dont understand why people are so against the Lord blessing them.

No one is against the Lord blessing them but is Joyce Meyers living in a 10,000 square foot house any more blessed than the couple living in a small 1000 square foot apartment? Where does God say that when He blesses us, He's going to give us mansions on earth?

Its all about having a relationship with the Lord and growing in Him and whichever way the Lord leads you to that then so be it. If I had just my bible and no one like Joyce or Beth to help me along in my walk I would not have grown like I have grown using their materials/studies as a guide.

I'm going to be honest here - I see someone who is unhappy with her life and looking for happiness in things and people. NO where does God say that nor is that the sign of a mature believer.

The more I get into the word the more I see the Lord doesnt want us to struggle and scrimp and save to make ends meet He wants us to have abundant life, life to the full till it overflows and not just about money its about love, family, relationships and above all a relationship with Him I dont know how else better I can put my statement. Seek Him First and the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these "things" shall be added unto you.

Let's take a look at the "seek first" passage to get what it's REALLY saying (it's not that if you have a relationship with God that you will have everything):

vs. 19-21 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

vs. 25-34 "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

"Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

I do not see anything about riches - but basics of life.

.... I am also currently listening to a Beth moore CD Series on the book of Job and getting alot out of it---Job wasnt happy with everything going on in fact I bet the more I study about it he downright hated it, but He kept on keeping on and Praising God in the midst of the storm and in the end the Lord blessed Him double.

Right.

Also Joyce is not all about money. the other day she did an awesome series on why things happen that really put alot of things into perspective for me. I have also attended like 4 of her conferences and each message is so uplifting that you leave out of there feeling like a new person. I will never understand why people down Joyce and Beth and Joel when there are others like RW Shambach, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts that need to be downed as well. JMHO

Joyce is not all about money? Why have a $10 million dollar jet? Why does she need a 10,000 square foot house plus other houses? Why did they spend $4 million on homes for herself and her children - PAID OUT OF THE MINISTRY'S COFFERS? Yep - sounds just like what God wants for His servants - extravagant pockets.

I'm sorry but when people are starving and homeless, I do not see the need for this. Joyce Meyer is a false teacher and, apparently since she's under investigation for her finances, I'd think that she's not dealing with her finances correctly.

 

[dan e.]

What information do you need that Beth supports contemplative prayer or it origins? I will be glad to get you both if you like.

Whatever you have. Is it an article? Bible Study? I'm just curious where it came from.

 

[donnA]

Because they use the scriptures to make their point. And according to you if they use scriptures they are "false teachers" And if you would look at the dates from your "articles" its back in 1990. I was in 7th grade in 1990 she has matured alot more since then. People change. God matures people. Did you ever think God has worked on her just like He works on us? I know when someone opens my eyes to something I am going to listen. Right now with all the crud going on in my life yeah I am listening to Beth and Joyce and Paula and several others only because right now I am seeking....my life is so horrible I am seeking to keep me going, keep me afloat

this is not true, this is not what I said, please do not twist my words into what you want them to be.
She still teaches these things.

 

[dan e.]

And do you have a direct quote about Joyce saying we are gods? And about Jesus paying for our sins in hell? I believe Jesus did go to hell after the cross before the resurrection because the Bible says so.

I've heard her say that. Although I disagree that the Bible says so. That was something added in a creed.....added with no biblical warrant.

 

[Revmitchell]

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac17.htm

 

[donnA]

And do you have a direct quote about Joyce saying we are gods? And about Jesus paying for our sins in hell? I believe Jesus did go to hell after the cross before the resurrection because the Bible says so.

I posted links with direct quotes in them.

 

[dan e.]

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac17.htm

I was talking about Beth Moore...not Joyce Meyer

 

[Revmitchell]

I was talking about Beth Moore...not Joyce Meyer

That link wasnt for you. Actually I was waiting for clarification form you.

 

[nunatak]

The Bible says some people are gifted to preach the gospel and others are gifted for discipleship. I agree the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about Him suffering and dying on the cross. But the rest of the Gospel is that He Rose Again (you left that part off). There is a better day! It didn't end in the tomb!

I have never heard that we are not all called to discipleship. I supposed we are all called to take up our cross. Is this not true? And you are right, I left off Christ's resurrection. I also left off his intercessory work. Praise God!

After receiving the Gospel (the Good News), comes discipleship, a relationship, a walk. That means, yes, I may suffer and need to take up my cross to follow Him, but I also have a new relationship to God, I am an heir and a joint-heir with Jesus Christ. I am adopted by God. I am blessed by God. I am walking with God, talking with God, through Jesus Christ, my best friend. My Heavenly Father WANTS to bless me because I am His child, not because I deserve it, but because of my relationship with Him through His Son, Jesus Christ. He has given me His WORD, a Book loaded with promises!! Both for now and for the future! Prosperity and Blessings are a part of it! Prosperity and blessings are Biblical doctrine - all through the OT and NT. It is just as wrong to accept the Death and Burial of Jesus Christ and leave off the Resurrection and New Life and Blessings as it is to preach ONLY the Blessings and not the Relationship and how we receive that new relationship.

I guess I don't see in scripture where we are promised prosperity in this life, or happiness in this life. I think that we American Christians focus on prosperity and blessings because we truly have everything we need. Therefore, we want God to give us what we don't need. If we were Christians in Mauretania, we would be praying for our next meal. That would be true prosperity.

Joyce Meyer does not preach JUST about Prosperity and those of you who say she does have never seriously listened to her teachings and studied the Word with her, you are just going by what her critics have said because she doesn't claim to be Baptist and is not Lifeway's flavor of the month, IMO. Anybody can prooftext the Bible or someone's teachings, BTW.

I've read some blogs on the web who say Beth Moore is just another WOF preacher, too. So anybody can say anything about anybody, which is what happens even here on the BB. But it doesn't necessarily make it true.

I don't know anything about either. I just have a hard time believing the gospel is about the American ideal of prosperity.

 

[dan e.]

That link wasnt for you. Actually I was waiting for clarification form you.

Oh....okay.

I'm wondering what info. you have that shows Beth Moore supports contemplative prayer (which is something debatable and defined differently among different people anyways). Was it in an article? One of her books/studies? Something else?

 

[donnA]

Joyce Meyer teaches that Jesus did not pay for sin upon the cross, but actually went to the torments of hell and made atonement there. The following quote is from Joyce Meyer's 1991 booklet on being born again which is worded differently in the 1996-updated edition.

"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin...He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme...Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus...He was resurrected from the dead ¾the first born-again man" (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make: A Complete And Thorough Understanding Of What It Means To Be Born Again, 1991, pages 35-36, Joyce Meyer)

snip

When Jesus hung on the cross, He took our sin upon Himself. God cannot stay in the presence of sin. As Jesus took our sin, He was separated from the presence of the Father...Jesus was taking your sins and those of everyone else upon Him as He felt this absence of His Father's presence. He said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" [Matt. 27:46, author's paraphrase] Jesus knew it would happen, but the horror of separation from the bright presence of the Father was worse than He could of imagined, and it caused Him to cry out...and His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go." (Page 42, 1996-Edition) This is a common teaching among the Faith Movement whereas they teach Jesus died spiritually and became literally the nature of sin. Thus, the Father turned away from Jesus while He was on the cross and Jesus died alone. Check out our article "Was Jesus Separated From The Father On The Cross?" for further information on Jesus being separated from the Father and becoming spiritually dead.

snip


[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]"There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place. He became your substitute and took all the punishment you deserve. He bore all your sins. He paid the dept you owe...Jesus went to hell for you. He died for you. He paid for your sins." (Page 43, 1996-Edition)[/FONT]

http://www.afcministry.com/Joyce_Meyers.htm
Joyce Meyers teaches you can't be saved unless you beleive what she teaches that Jesus wenty to hell for you to pay for your sins.

“During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin…He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus…He was resurrected from the dead ¾ the first born-again man”
(The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make: A Complete And Thorough Understanding Of What It Means To Be Born Again, 1991, pages 35-36, Joyce Meyer)
snip

“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place. He became your substitute and took all the punishment you deserve. He bore all your sins. He paid the dept you owe…Jesus went to hell for you. He died for you. He paid for your sins.”
(Page 43, 1996-Edition)

“He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell.”
Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)


“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell”
Joyce Meyer (”The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make”, 1991 pg. 3)


“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man”
Joyce Meyer (”The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make”, 1991 pg. 36)


“I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time. All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”
Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)


What does the bible say?
1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

http://testallthings.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/joyce-meyer/

Quotes from her are all oveer tthe internet, repeated over and over, directly from her books, and sermons.
I don't think the date matters, she had never changed her statement and said it was wrong and that now she beleives something else.