The Necessity of Special Creation

[Gold Dragon]

You guys need to study both Bible and the Life Science, OB&Gyn.

My conclusion was made after the lengthy discussion with the MD in OB+Gyn for long time.

Blood is produced in the backbone and if the DNA of Mary was inherited to Jesus, then Jesus must have the DNA in His backbone and the same Blood nature should have passed unto Him.

:laugh: Either your Ob/Gyn needs to go back to school to study first year medical school again or you don't understand what he/she says.

Blood is produced in bone marrow. When you are young this is found in all bone. As you get older, the flat bones which does include the backbone (hip, vertebrae, skull, ribs, sternum, scapula) and parts of large long bones (humerus, femur) still contain bone marrow.

I also hope you understand that every cell in one's body has the same DNA, not just the blood. That one is Gr 9 high school science and maybe earlier these days.

 

[donnA]

Well, God said it so I believe it! Genesis 3:15

Then you have misunderstood, as God does not say things that are not true.

 

[Gold Dragon]

The reason the bible attaches spiritual siginificance to blood is because it represents life.

The biological function of blood is to carry nutrients, oxygen, carbon dioxide, cellular waste products and horomones to various parts of the body where it is used or excreted.

One could make a very poor argument that hormones cause sin but that is easy to debunk as the source of "sin nature".

There is nothing magical about our blood or Christ's blood biologically that causes us to sin or Christ not to sin. It is his life that was sinless and his blood covers our sin because it was poured out in the sacrifice of his life.

 

[Eliyahu]

:laugh: Either your Ob/Gyn needs to go back to school to study first year medical school again or you don't understand what he/she says.

Blood is produced in bone marrow. When you are young this is found in all bone. As you get older, the flat bones which does include the backbone (hip, vertebrae, skull, ribs, sternum, scapula) and parts of large long bones (humerus, femur) still contain bone marrow.

I also hope you understand that every cell in one's body has the same DNA, not just the blood. That one is Gr 9 high school science and maybe earlier these days.

Did I say that only the Backbone produces the Blood? Did I say that every part of the body has different DNA's? I didn't know that the skulls produces the blood, but yes, Bone Marrows produces the Blood.
The main argument was that Belly Button doesn't supply the Blood from the mother to the fetus.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Did I say that only the Backbone produces the Blood? Did I say that every part of the body has different DNA's? I didn't know that the skulls produces the blood, but yes, Bone Marrows produces the Blood.
The main argument was that Belly Button doesn't supply the Blood from the mother to the fetus.

In the placenta, the fetal blood and maternal blood are physically separated so that the blood doesn't mix because if it did, the mother's immune system would destroy the baby because its blood is foreign to her body.

However many things do pass between the blood of the mother and the child in the placenta including gases, nutrients, hormones, viruses, chemicals (such as alcohol) and many other small molecules.

 

[Eliyahu]

In the placenta, the fetal blood and maternal blood are physically separated so that the blood doesn't mix because if it did, the mother's immune system would destroy the baby because its blood is foreign to her body.

However many things do pass between the blood of the mother and the child in the placenta including gases, nutrients, hormones, viruses, chemicals (such as alcohol) and many other small molecules.

When we say that the Blood of Mary is inherited to fetus Jesus if she were the Biological Mother, the reasoning is that the Blood is not passed unto Jesus because of the Belly Button etc, but because DNA of Mary is inherited to the fetus if the Ovum of Mary was used.
In that case, if the DNA of Mary was deformed due to the sin nature or Fall of human race, then the DNA of Jesus must have been deformed.

Since the Fall of Adam, and after the Flood, the human life time has been reduced gradually, partly because of the environment change ( such as UV) and partly because of the human body degradation, I believe. When we see the life time of the people after the Flood, such trends are evidently shown.

 

[donnA]

Mary had no “sin” to “pass on”, no guilt whatsoever. Jesus’ natures are both human and divine. His human nature is no different than yours or mine, he was tempted, hungered, thirst, could bleed, feel pain, sorrow…ect (by taking on our humanity, Christ bridges the chasm between the Creator and the created) and Christ is fully divine.

Luke 1:47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
If Mary did not have sin, why was God her Savior, she didn't need one.

Ro. 3:
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

It doesn't say all but Mary, or all but some, or there were some not included, it says ALL, which includes MAry.
Your thoughts on the sinlessness of MAry contradict scripture.

You’re too hung up on “sin”…we including Christ inherited the consequences of Adam’s disobedience. That being death.

According to this, Jesus was born with the sin nature, and inherited the consequences of Adam's disobedience, death. So how could He die for our sins if indeed He Himself inherited death becasue of His sin nature?
Scripurally, it doesn't hold water.

 

[donnA]

sfic, I searched the other thread and couldn't find the link annsi is referring to being buddhist, could you please post it again, sorry.

 

[annsni]

And God is not all powerful and all sovereign to have power over sin and create a flesh for Christ to dwell in that's not sinful?

 

[Eliyahu]

GD,
Do you think it is possible that

1) Word of God became Flesh, while Ovum of Mary became Flesh of Jesus as well ( 2 kinds of flesh may exist in that case)

2) Ovum of Mary is fertilized with the Word of God ?

 

[Eliyahu]

And God is not all powerful and all sovereign to have power over sin and create a flesh for Christ to dwell in that's not sinful?

God is powerful to create Sinless flesh without need of any corrupted body or body parts from a woman as Word became Flesh.

 

[donnA]

And God is not all powerful and all sovereign to have power over sin and create a flesh for Christ to dwell in that's not sinful?

Your going to need some scripture, becasue your stretching a bit.

 

[annsni]

“Thoughts of a Layman” archives: “The Impossible Story of Christ,” 12/24/03

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=46345&page=28

Post #273

 

[Gold Dragon]

The other science tidbit that is important to this discussion is that red blood cells have no DNA. As they are being produced in the bone marrow they do have DNA. But in the maturation process, they lose their nucleus and DNA to effectively perform its function as primarily an O2 and CO2 carrier. In the blood stream, normal blood does not have DNA or a cell nucleus. White blood cells do have DNA.

 

[annsni]

God is powerful to create Sinless flesh without need of any corrupted body or body parts from a woman as Word became Flesh.

God most certainly could but that would not follow the prophecies that He Himself wrote through the Old Testament.

 

[annsni]

Your going to need some scripture, becasue your stretching a bit.

You're asking for Scripture to back up the fact that God is all powerful or that He's strong enough to create a human being without sin?

 

[Eliyahu]

Word of God suddenly appeared in Flesh during OT times.

Genesis 18

1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: 4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. 6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. 8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
The only difference is that God didn't come thru a woman.

 

[Gold Dragon]

GD,
Do you think it is possible that

1) Word of God became Flesh, while Ovum of Mary became Flesh of Jesus as well ( 2 kinds of flesh may exist in that case)

2) Ovum of Mary is fertilized with the Word of God ?

I don't know how God did it, but I believe the Word became Flesh and that the title Theotokos is a right title for Mary as the mother of Jesus who is God. It was an important confirmation of the Christology of Christ being both fully God and fully man.

And just like Catholics and the Orthodox, I do not believe the title Theotokos means that:
1) Mary was the mother of the Trinity
2) Mary was the mother of God the Father
3) Mary was the mother of God the Spirit
4) Mary was the mother of Jesus' divinity
5) Mary pre-existed God or the divine Logos

Failure to see this is failure to understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Maybe he's a universalist Buddhist. I don't know - but did you look at the site? He's not a Christian. I promise.

Ann, did it ever occur to you that there are more than one layman in this world?

You visit a Buddhist site and automatically believe all laymen are not saved?

The one who wrote the article in the other thread was not the Buddhist, how many times do I have to repeat myself?

In the other thread, I told you part of this layman's testimony was Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe.

You must get past the idea that just because one claims to be a Buddhist, all are Buddhists... really.

 

[Eliyahu]

God most certainly could but that would not follow the prophecies that He Himself wrote through the Old Testament.

As long as the Flesh made from Word is formed in a woman, it fulfills the Prophecy.

God ( Word) was manifest in Flesh ( 1 Tim 3:16)