Building Bridges: Calvinism and Southern Baptists

[Rhetorician]

Gentlemen and Gentle Ladies:

There is upcoming one of the most important conferences to take place possibly in the first decade of the 2000s. It is the "Building Bridges" Conference. It will be held at the Ridgecrest Conference Ctr. (SBC) in Western North Carolina. It will be in November of 2007, this fall.

The reason I am posting it in the "College/Seminary" section is the academic import of the topic: "Calvinism and the SBC." It also, obviously, has applications for the pastoral ministry. The hyperlink is at:

http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D165917%2526M%253D201125,00.html?

I think this is the kind of dialog needed; in the Evangelical churches, the academic communities, and the SBC in particular. There is a cross-section of denominational workers, academics, pastors, church-planters, church growth researchers, theologians, seminary profs, seminary administrators, et al who will be giving papers. They are both pro and con on Calvinism and it seems to balanced from both perspectives.

Please check it out. It will be worth whatever it costs you to get there.

Please come back with some worthy comments so I can know if this has generated more "heat" or "light?"

FYI!

sdg!:thumbs:

rd

 

[Martin]

Pouring Salt Into My Wounds

It is the "Building Bridges" Conference. It will be held at the Ridgecrest Conference Ctr. (SBC) in Western North Carolina. It will be in November of 2007, this fall.

==When I first heard about this event earlier this week I was so excited. However my excitement quickly died when I realized that I have a schedule conflict and cannot attend. The same is also true with RC Sproul's conference in Charlotte in September. I wish they would schedule these conferences on weekends and during the summer.

I think this is the kind of dialog needed; in the Evangelical churches, the academic communities, and the SBC in particular. There is a cross-section of denominational workers, academics, pastors, church-planters, church growth researchers, theologians, seminary profs, seminary administrators, et al who will be giving papers. They are both pro and con on Calvinism and it seems to balanced from both perspectives.

==I hope there will be good dialog there. There has certainly not been good dialog in many other circles. With that comment I am thinking of Dave Hunt, Ergun Caner, Jerry Vines, Jerry Falwell, and others who simply wish to silence (as heretics) all who are Calvinists. Dr. Caner went so far as to say that Calvinists are not welcome at Liberty Seminary. I am sure he forgot or overlooked the fact that many alumni and supporters of Liberty, as well as current students and faculty, are Calvinists. On the other hand I have been encouraged by the attitude of Daniel Akin (SEBTS Pres) and Paige Patterson (SWBTS Pres). Patterson's discussion with Mohler during last years SBC meeting was a breath of fresh air. As were the remarks made by Dr. Akin in an article he wrote (I believe last year). Christian Universities and Seminaries need to start having/allowing serious discussion/debate of these type issues. History tells us that many Godly men have been Calvinists (Whitefield, Edwards, etc) and many have been Arminian (Wesley, Asbury, etc). There is no reason to divide over this issue. However there is very good reason for discussion, debate, and Christian disagreement. Sadly, for the most part, this has not been the case in recent years (on both sides).

 

[TomVols]

I'm going to move this to the pastoral forum, as I believe it's at least more applicable there (and important for ministers) and will not draw the ire it would draw there as opposed to what it would surely draw in the General forum.

 

[TomVols]

This thread is worthy, but not of debate. One iota of C vs. A debate or any insults, and I'm shutting it down and recommending discipline for the violator. This is a fellowship forum, and there are debate forums strictly for this subject matter.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Thanks for the information, I am very glad to hear an event like this is taking place in SBC life.

 

[Rhetorician]

Tom Reponse

Thanks Tom,

I think you know that I did not mean to cause any confusion or debate.

The plug was only FYI for all who might be interested.

I appreciate the good work you and all of the moderators do.

Thanks again.

sdg!:thumbs:

rd

 

[TomVols]

I certainly do know that. That's why I posted it here instead of the General Discussion forum, even though I think the whole board should know about this conference. If there's any way in the world I can get there, I will.

 

[go2church]

This thread is worthy, but not of debate. One iota of C vs. A debate or any insults, and I'm shutting it down and recommending discipline for the violator. This is a fellowship forum, and there are debate forums strictly for this subject matter.

If this indeed the case just where do I post my joke about "building bridges to nowhere"?

 

[Goldie]

Post deleted.

 

[Victorious]

I like this view:

“There is no soul living who holds more firmly to the doctrines of grace than I do, and if any man asks me whether I am ashamed to be called a Calvinist, I answer—I wish to be called nothing but a Christian; but if you ask me, do I hold the doctrinal views which were held by John Calvin, I reply, I do in the main hold them, and rejoice to avow it. But far be it from me even to imagine that Zion contains none but Calvinistic Christians within her walls, or that there are none saved who do not hold our views.”

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

narrowgatejournal.wordpress.com

 

[gb93433]

The SBC needs a few more issues if it wants to die.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The SBC needs a few more issues if it wants to die.

Must be too early, no coffee yet but GB.....why are you dredging this old post up? Looks like your trying to antagonize.

 

[Bob Alkire]

There is no reason to divide over this issue.

We went for year being able to get along. Pastors from one camp spoke often in the other camps churches. I even have seen John McArthur speak at Thomas Road Baptist Church with Jerry Falwell. I believe D. James Kennedy has spoke there also, I could be wrong on this one though.
One side didn't treat the other as the enemy.

However there is very good reason for discussion, debate, and Christian disagreement. Sadly, for the most part, this has not been the case in recent years (on both sides).

I never saw much problem down here till the Dolphin Way Baptist Church in Mobile, Al. , Germantown,Tn. and many others that I can't think of their names right now. The little deal of how to preach and teach so the pews won't know your theology . Get enough on your side and then bring it out in the open. This has caused many splits. I'm still one that lays the blame on the search committee. They should check things out better. I wouldn't put any trust in the pastor who would come in under a false banner, though. I hope it works out.

 

[TomVols]

I think you mean Dauphin Way Baptist, and the split there was over more than Calvinism.

The little deal of how to preach and teach so the pews won't know your theology . Get enough on your side and then bring it out in the open.

This is a bromide. No one on the Reformed side is advocating stealth. Unfortunately though, in today's anti-doctrinal churches, you do have to use careful language, lest you (GASP) appear to preach doctrine, talk theology, or speak of church history. And any group that believes in Biblical recovery will have a strategy for this.

We need to remember this all started with a prominent pastor talking about purging the Calvinists from the SBC since the other "liberals" were all pretty much gone already.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think you mean Dauphin Way Baptist, and the split there was over more than Calvinism. This is a bromide. No one on the Reformed side is advocating stealth. Unfortunately though, in today's anti-doctrinal churches, you do have to use careful language, lest you (GASP) appear to preach doctrine, talk theology, or speak of church history. And any group that believes in Biblical recovery will have a strategy for this.

We need to remember this all started with a prominent pastor talking about purging the Calvinists from the SBC since the other "liberals" were all pretty much gone already.

Question, how do you purge quality like Al Mohler who runs Southern...ridiculous.

 

[Major B]

I think you mean Dauphin Way Baptist, and the split there was over more than Calvinism. This is a bromide. No one on the Reformed side is advocating stealth. Unfortunately though, in today's anti-doctrinal churches, you do have to use careful language, lest you (GASP) appear to preach doctrine, talk theology, or speak of church history. And any group that believes in Biblical recovery will have a strategy for this.

We need to remember this all started with a prominent pastor talking about purging the Calvinists from the SBC since the other "liberals" were all pretty much gone already.

There is stealth--I could give you specific instnaces that I have personally been involved in (counseling the leftovers). I know of several young preachers who have hidden their calvinism during the hiring process and tried to bring it out later. One church split during the hiring process. One fellow (now no longer in the ministry) split four churches. I am pretty much a calvinist, albeit a four pointer, but I really don't like stealth calvinism.

Sometimes the problem is ignorance on both sides, but often the young calvinist preacher uses coded language that he knows the pulpit committee does not fully understand. Hence the list of things entitled "How To Smoke Out A Calvinist" that Tom Ascol posted at the Founder's website. I have read some recent stuff on both sides which I see as having much common ground, but the big wigs involved won't sit down together.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is stealth--I could give you specific instnaces that I have personally been involved in (counseling the leftovers). I know of several young preachers who have hidden their calvinism during the hiring process and tried to bring it out later. One church split during the hiring process. One fellow (now no longer in the ministry) split four churches. I am pretty much a calvinist, albeit a four pointer, but I really don't like stealth calvinism.

Sometimes the problem is ignorance on both sides, but often the young calvinist preacher uses coded language that he knows the pulpit committee does not fully understand. Hence the list of things entitled "How To Smoke Out A Calvinist" that Tom Ascol posted at the Founder's website. I have read some recent stuff on both sides which I see as having much common ground, but the big wigs involved won't sit down together.

I'm assuming your saying they're interviewing at Baptist Churches? Why? I would go to other Reformed Churches that would welcome sound Calvinist doctrine. Maybe I'm missing something....if so, please enlighten me.

 

[gb93433]

Must be too early, no coffee yet but GB.....why are you dredging this old post up? Looks like your trying to antagonize.

Not at all. It seems like they have enough on their plate now. So why do they need more? There are always conflicts. Some are quite good and it depends on how they are handled. I do not even always agree with myself. However I have never disagreed with James 1:22. I may disagree with some of the theology a man professes but I can never disagree with his life is he is a doer of the word. I have never seen a man who knows God and makes disciples ever fall from a proper theology. I have seen many more who I went to seminary with "fall off the wagon."

 

[gb93433]

There is no reason to divide over this issue. However there is very good reason for discussion, debate, and Christian disagreement. Sadly, for the most part, this has not been the case in recent years (on both sides).

The arminians would tend to motivate and challenge the calvinists and the calvinists would porobably tend to challenge the armininans. We tend to focus on what we want to see and not always what we should see.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not at all. It seems like they have enough on their plate now. So why do they need more? There are always conflicts. Some are quite good and it depends on how they are handled. I do not even always agree with myself. However I have never disagreed with James 1:22. I may disagree with some of the theology a man professes but I can never disagree with his life is he is a doer of the word. I have never seen a man who knows God and makes disciples ever fall from a proper theology. I have seen many more who I went to seminary with "fall off the wagon."

Amen to James 1:22 .... Have a Great Sabbath.