Judgment of God in Dan 7 and Romans 2

[Yeshua1]

your rejection of the Protestant reformation ... noted.

in Christ,

Bob

No, rather my rejection of your cultic take on prophecy!

 

[BobRyan]

No, rather my rejection of your cultic...<nonsensical rant deleted here

My signature line sir.

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

If this is what you are seeking by those rants - then hopefully you are getting your sought after response.

 

[Yeshua1]

My signature line sir.

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

If this is what you are seeking by those rants - then hopefully you are getting your sought after response.

Not name calling on this, just pointing out that the SDA views on prophecy are NOT gleaned from the Bible, but from false understandings and teachings of a false prophetess!

 

[One Baptism]

...In the typological, we see that a sinner could come [in repentance, with a sacrifice, etc] [basically] on any day of the year, and be "forgiven", but that person, though "forgiven", still had to take part in the Day of Atonement, where entirely different atonements were to take place. This person could be "cut off" forever under specified circumstances. For the sin that was 'transferred' from him in all the 'daily' atonements throughout the year to the sacrifice, blood, meat, priest, sanctuary, could be revoked under specific circumstances [iow - still living in unrepentant, unforgiven, unforsaken sin [1 John 3:4]], and placed back upon themselves, even as we see in Matthew 18:21-35, 22:1-14, etc.

On/in the Day of Atonement, it was in the hands of the work of the High Priest, in communion with God's work, to cleanse the Sanctuary, and do the work of Judgment. For the High Priest, who always wore the Breastplate of Judgment, was to do a special work in that specific Day:

And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy [place], for a memorial before the LORD continually. Exodus 28:29

And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually. Exodus 28:30​

This specific work of the High Priest in this Day, "in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month", could not have been done on any other day, not on/in Passover, Unleavened Bread, Wavesheaf/Firstfruits, Pentecost or Trumpets and had to come before Tabernacles ["in the fifteenth day of the seventh month"].

In the Book of Daniel we see this same Judgment going forward at a very specific time.

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Daniel 7:9

A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Daniel 7:10

“Until the Ancient of days came ...” Daniel 7:22

“But the judgment shall sit ...” Daniel 7:26​

We can know that this Judgment, which takes place in Heaven, begins after a certain time, and before the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

[1] The Lion with Eagles wings comes first, [Daniel 7:4], The Kingdom of Babylon, which was from 605 BC – 539/8 BC

[2] The Bear raised up on one side with three ribs, [Daniel 7:5], The Kingdom of Medo-Persia, which was from 539/8 BC – 331 BC.

[3] The Leopard with 4 Heads and 4 Wings, [Daniel 7:6], The Kingdom of Greece and its division, which was from 331 BC – 168 BC.

[4] The Dreadful Terrible Beast with Iron Teeth, Brass Claws, [Daniel 7:7], The Kingdom of Pagan Rome, before its division, which was from 168 BC – AD 476

[5] The Dreadful Terrible Beast with Iron Teeth, Brass Claws, then goes into division, with the Ten Horns, [Daniel 7:7], during the division of the Pagan Roman Empire, which was from AD 476 – AD 508/538.

[6] The Dreadful Terrible Beast with Iron Teeth, Brass Claws, in its division, then another different power arises from the division, an eleventh horn, the Papal Rome, uproots three of the ten, and becomes the 8th. This power was seen in the days of the Apostles, but was withheld by the Caesars in power, until finally it gained the power of the state, taking the place of the Caesars in Rome, 538 AD and rules for 1,260 years [Daniel 7:21,25] until AD 1798, where it received a deadly wound from the atheistic France, under Napoleon and his general Alexander Berthier. Thus the 1,260 [from AD 538] and 1,290 [from AD 508] ended in AD 1798 [Daniel 11:40[a]], and the 1,335 [from AD 508], ended in AD 1843/4. The 2,300 [Daniel 8:14, from 457 BC] was coming to its end... AD 1844 approached [Daniel 7:26].

[7] “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit … the judgment was set, and the books were opened.” [Daniel 7:9-10], the Judgment was set in Heaven in AD 1844, as was foretold/typified by the Feasts of Leviticus 23 and 16, the Day of Atonement.

[8] We can see that the Judgment is going on in Heaven, while the 4th Beast and its last [revived, Revelation 13 & 17] form is still on earth, and still blaspheming God, [Daniel 7:11].

This same may be witnessed again in Daniel 8, further in 9 and 10-12.

Further texts that reveal the Investigative Judgment is found in the Gospels, wherein Jesus speaks a Parable about the Marriage, of Jesus to His City/Kingdom in Heaven [“far country” - Luke 19:12; Isaiah 13:5]:

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, - Matthew 22:1

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, - Matthew 22:2

And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. - Matthew 22:3

[God sent forth Prophets/Messengers]​

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and [my] fatlings [are] killed, and all things [are] ready: come unto the marriage. - Matthew 22:4

But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: - Matthew 22:5

And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them]. - Matthew 22:6

But when the king heard [thereof], he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. - Matthew 22:7

[Destruction of Jerusalem, AD 70]​

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. - Matthew 22:8

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. - Matthew 22:9

[The Gospel went to the Gentiles... through Paul and the Dispersion...]​

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. - Matthew 22:10

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: - Matthew 22:11

[The King of Heaven, sees, looks or investigates all those that were brought, both the “bad and good”, in other words those that claim to be Christians, the Tares and the Wheat; Matthew 13:25,29,30]​

And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. - Matthew 22:12

[Christ provided the wedding Garment to all, but some while claiming to be Christian are not wearing Christ's Righteousness, but their own works...]​

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 22:13

For many are called, but few [are] chosen. - Matthew 22:14​

Notice, that while the Wedding of Jesus to His city goes on in Heaven, wherein He will receive his Kingdom [Daniel 7:14, which comes after the Judgment had already began and was going forward, Daniel 7:9-10], there is an investigation of who is worthy of all that claim to be part of that inheritance.

 

[BobRyan]

Not name calling on this, just pointing out that the SDA views on prophecy are NOT gleaned from the Bible,

And do you really think you can make that case by completely ignoring the Bible - and leaving the "Bible" to "ME"??

Your actions say "I will make my case by name-calling I don't need no Bible study" --

Try the Bible "instead".

Notice that OneBaptism has not chosen to make his case by abandoning the Bible - ??

Why don't you try that??

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
The Protestants have long accepted that the little horn of Dan 7 is the RCC and the Ten divisions of the Pagan Roman Empire are what is referenced in that text -- where Papacy is responsible for the demise of 3 of them through its servants.

Dan 2 is the first discussion of this same 4 empire sequence as all study Bible show in the margins. They all have the same sequence for both Dan 2 and Daniel 7.

And pagan Rome is always the 4th empire -- the one that follows Greece.

Dan 2 - Nebuchadnezzar - king of Babylon is pointed to as belonging to the FIRST empire - Babylon.
Dan 7 -- Medo-Persia and Greece are both identified specifically as the next 3 empires.

And of course even the Protestant Reformers knew that Pagan Rome was the 4th empire - the one that follows Greece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeshua1
The little horn in daniel is the coming Antichrist, and Imperial Rome, NOT yjre Papacy/RCC was the fourth kingdom!

Your views come from the minunderstandings of a false prophetess!

your rejection of the Protestant reformation ... noted.

No, rather my rejection of your cultic take on prophecy!

The problem with your "only-name-calling that is all I know" solution to every Bible topic is that it leaves you in ignorance.

Read.

Then you will find out that the historicist model used above is THE Model that has been in use since the Protestant Reformation and WAS the dominant model of Protestants for 300 years.

You unwittingly assign the Protestant reformation to the status of "cult" in your sweeping, empty fluff, school-yard solution of name-calling to every Bible subject that displeases you.

So then - I offer you my signature line as food for thought.

Try another solution other than simply vacating the field in a harrumph of more name calling.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of "reading" -- the Dan 7 case is clear --

[FONT=&quot]The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming[/FONT]

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7
23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

 

[Yeshua1]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
The Protestants have long accepted that the little horn of Dan 7 is the RCC and the Ten divisions of the Pagan Roman Empire are what is referenced in that text -- where Papacy is responsible for the demise of 3 of them through its servants.

Dan 2 is the first discussion of this same 4 empire sequence as all study Bible show in the margins. They all have the same sequence for both Dan 2 and Daniel 7.

And pagan Rome is always the 4th empire -- the one that follows Greece.

Dan 2 - Nebuchadnezzar - king of Babylon is pointed to as belonging to the FIRST empire - Babylon.
Dan 7 -- Medo-Persia and Greece are both identified specifically as the next 3 empires.

And of course even the Protestant Reformers knew that Pagan Rome was the 4th empire - the one that follows Greece.







The problem with your "only-name-calling that is all I know" solution to every Bible topic is that it leaves you in ignorance.

Read.

Then you will find out that the historicist model used above is THE Model that has been in use since the Protestant Reformation and WAS the dominant model of Protestants for 300 years.

You unwittingly assign the Protestant reformation to the status of "cult" in your sweeping, empty fluff, school-yard solution of name-calling to every Bible subject that displeases you.

So then - I offer you my signature line as food for thought.

Try another solution other than simply vacating the field in a harrumph of more name calling.

in Christ,

Bob

That viewpoint Though has NEVER taken hold in Baptist churches, as we prefer to instead use a literal stance on how to understand prophecy, and as such, we do NOT see the antichrist as being the papacy, nor that the SDA was the church that was the faithful remnant God preserved during this time thru the teachings of Ellen White!

 

[BobRyan]

Rebel asks and interesting question and so adding it here --

Regarding the "Investigative Pre-advent Judgment" that we see in Daniel 7

A lot of non-SDAs have that view of it I would agree to that. But in actual history Ellen White did not come to the SDA or Millerite church saying "Hey I have a new doctrine for you just given to me in vision - consider if you will what I call the Investigative Judgment - God gave this to me in vision please take a look and accept it if you agree that I am a prophet".

Nothing like that happened. Rather it was other men in our group that argued for it from the Bible - and later Ellen White claimed to have a visioin where God also speaks of it to her. But at no point do SDAs make the case "Well Ellen White was shown this in vision so I believe in the Investigative Judgment because it is was given to us in vision by God to Ellen White".


The whole thing either works as tested 'sola scriptura' or it does not.

Do you agree that it was formulated, seized upon, "discovered", or however you want to put it, in order to save the Adventist movement?

There were 50,000 Millerites in 1844 and of that - 50 took at look at this and start off along the road that the details in Dan 7 point unmistakably to judgment in heaven, before the 2nd coming, based on books being opened, and at the conclusion of which we have the 2nd coming.

Thus they argued that while the timelines were correct the event predicted by the Millerites was wrong.

Some jews argued that the Disciples predicted a certain event on Palm Sunday and that event failed on crucifixion-Friday. How "convenient" for them then to have a doctrine about the resurrection of Christ?

Certainly we can view these "solution" as nothing more than "mere convenience" if there is no actual Bible support for them. I freely admit that fact.

But as pointed out here ---- #1 ----- on its dedicated thread -- there is clear Bible evidence ..

and this other thread #2

======================================================================================

[FONT=&quot]The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming[/FONT]

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7
23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

 

[One Baptism]

...Notice, that while the Wedding of Jesus to His city goes on in Heaven, wherein He will receive his Kingdom [Daniel 7:14, which comes after the Judgment had already began and was going forward, Daniel 7:9-10], there is an investigation of who is worthy of all that claim to be part of that inheritance.

This is witnessed in Matthew 18 and elsewhere:

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. Matthew 18:27​

This debtor was loosed by the compassion of the Lord and all his past sins were forgiven him by the Lord.

Yet, we see by the very texts in continuing, these sins, though forgiven, were not yet blotted out, but remained for the Lord to deal with, and could be re-instated if unfaithful of the grace bestowed, or uncaring of the responsibility given in newness.

We see that "all" the "debt" was "forgiven", but because of the servants attitude and behaviour in probationary time, failed of the grace of received, and was to then pay all.

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Matthew 18:32​

Notice, the previous debt is re-instated to his account, in addition to that which the servant committed since then.

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. Matthew 18:34​

The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment.

In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam was warned, and He having warned her, and Adam following in sin, and then "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day", and God ['Jesus'] investigates, inquiring and asking questions [Genesis 3:9-19; not that God doesn't know, but it is for the benefit of the angels and Adam/Eve and us], having already warned man of the sentence for sin [Genesis 2:17], and then God carries out sentence, but also gives hope [Genesis 3:15].

In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship God, yet one was a son of that wicked one, satan. When Abel was killed by Cain, God came down and asked/inquired/investigated of Cain, before sentence was carried out.

In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, being the "sons of God" who had "called upon the name of the LORD", they were being led away from their faith because of their lusts, and inter-marrying with the "daughters of men", those who "went out from the presence of the LORD', etc - http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99504. God looks upon the world in investigation, before execution of Judgment by the Flood, even sending messengers to warn.

In Genesis 10-11, we that the people again rebelled, and God came down to see and look and investigate, before the execution of Judgment in the separation of the languages.

In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet Sodom did not truly repent, and went further in rebellion, and God came down to see/investigate/judge before execution of Judgment, even sending angel messengers. ...etc...

In Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that Israel, and all that claimed to follow God, was to enter into the time of the typical Day of Atonement, wherein the Priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breast plate of Judgment the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in harmony with God, in true repentance, was to be cut off at the end of it.

In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon [type of Christ] having an investigation between two persons [women] over a dead Child [Christ], and a living Child [Christ] to see who really loved the Child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, and gives a test, and a sentence testing the loyalty of the True mother [true Church, worshippers] and the corruption of heart of the false mother [false church, worshippers].

In the Gospels, Jesus himself came to see/investigate/judge Israel, before the execution of Judgment.​

There are examples of the 'Investigative Judgment' in Type, which point to the Anti-type, now taking place, in the Anti-typical Day of Atonement, the Day of Judgment.

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, to day and forever.

I AM the LORD, I change not...

 

[BobRyan]

I AM the LORD, I change not...

Malachi 3?

 

[Yeshua1]

Malachi 3?

So God did not change when He became a man, and dwelt among us then?

 

[One Baptism]

So God did not change when He became a man, and dwelt among us then?

Deals with Character. The name "the LORD" ["יהוה"; YHVH; Jehovah] specifies that He is who He is, unchanging:

And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. - Exodus 34:5

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, - Exodus 34:6

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation]. - Exodus 34:7​

 

[One Baptism]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. - Hebrews 13:8

For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. - Malachi 3:6

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: - Hebrews 1:10

They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; - Hebrews 1:11

And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. - Hebrews 1:12

To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; - Psalm 102:21

I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years [are] throughout all generations. - Psalm 102:24

Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands. - Psalm 102:25

They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: - Psalm 102:26

But thou [art] the same, and thy years shall have no end. - Psalm 102:27​

Deals with Character. The name "the LORD" ["יהוה"; YHVH; Jehovah] specifies that He is who He is, unchanging:

And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. - Exodus 34:5

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, - Exodus 34:6

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation]. - Exodus 34:7​

 

[One Baptism]

Malachi 3?

Yes, brother.

 

[BobRyan]

Heb 13:8 fits that well as we find that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever".

Malachi 3:
“Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
2 “But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify the sons of Levi,
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness.

4 “Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem
Will be pleasant to the Lord,
As in the days of old,
As in former years.
5 And I will come near you for judgment;
I will be a swift witness
Against sorcerers,
Against adulterers,
Against perjurers,
Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans,
And against those who turn away an alien—
Because they do not fear Me,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

 

[One Baptism]

...

The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment.

In Genesis 2 & 3...

In Genesis 4...

In Genesis 6-9...

In Genesis 10-11...

In Genesis 17-19...

In Leviticus 16 & 23...

In 1 Kings 3...

In the Gospels...​

There are examples of the 'Investigative Judgment' in Type, which point to the Anti-type, now taking place, in the Anti-typical Day of Atonement, the Day of Judgment.

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, to day and forever.

I AM the LORD, I change not...

Then, we can turn to the scriptures and see the many references to the Books of Records in the Heavens as Daniel 7 speaks of, “...the judgment was set, and the books were opened.” [Daniel 7:10]:

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Exodus 32:33

...Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: [are they] not in thy book. Psalms 56:8

...Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them. Psalms 139:16

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. Revelation 5:1

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? Revelation 5:2

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:3

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:4

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. Revelation 5:5

And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Revelation 5:7

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. Revelation 5:8

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Revelation 5:9

And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life. Philippians 4:3

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation 3:5

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Revelation 17:8

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:12

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 21:27

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. Psalms 69:28

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard [it], and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. Malachi 3:16

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Deuteronomy 30:19

Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. Deuteronomy 31:28

Also now, behold, my witness [is] in heaven, and my record [is] on high. Job 16:19

Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. 2 Corinthians 1:23

For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:8

And he spread it before me; and it [was] written within and without: and [there was] written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe. Ezekiel 2:10

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Ezekiel 18:24

[[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.]] Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Psalms 51:1

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Psalms 51:9

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 3:19

For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, [yet] thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD. Jeremiah 2:22

And cover not their iniquity, and let not their sin be blotted out from before thee: for they have provoked [thee] to anger before the builders. Nehemiah 4:5

Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay [me]: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal [thus] with them in the time of thine anger. Jeremiah 18:23

Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. Psalms 109:14

Behold, [it is] written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, Isaiah 65:6

Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Isaiah 65:7​

...to be continued...

 

[One Baptism]

...

Behold, [it is] written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, Isaiah 65:6

Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Isaiah 65:7​

...to be continued...

In Daniel 12, which is the ending of Daniel 11, which itself is the repetition and enlargement of Daniel 8 and Daniel 7 and 2, we may witness that those which are found which are to be delivered in the end, must be found in the Book of Life, and in order to be found therein, that Book must be opened and read in the investigation time, which takes place before Jesus comes to give his reward, for before then a decree goes forward from Jesus [Revelation 22:11].

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1​

[see also Luke 13:25]

Again, in Revelation we see that there was a time of Measuring the Temple [God's people; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; Revelation 3:12 ] by the Word of God, which began in a time after the 42 months [3 1/2 times, the 1,260 years, AD 538 – AD 1798; Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5 and Luke 21:24], after the 1,335 [AD 508 – AD 1843/4] and at the very end of the 2,300 [Daniel 8:14; AD 1844].

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. Revelation 11:1

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Revelation 11:2​

The Judgment of God, for those that claim to follow Him, is now [Revelation 14:6-12; the Three Angels Messages], and soon the door of probation closes, while the rest of the unbelieving world, knows it not. As it was in the Days of Noah... as it was in the Days of Lot...

 

[BobRyan]

Then, we can turn to the scriptures and see the many references to the Books of Records in the Heavens as Daniel 7 speaks of, “...the judgment was set, and the books were opened.” [Daniel 7:10]:

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exodus 32:32

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Exodus 32:33

...Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: [are they] not in thy book. Psalms 56:8

...Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them. Psalms 139:16

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. Revelation 5:1

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? Revelation 5:2

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:3

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:4

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. Revelation 5:5

And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Revelation 5:7

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. Revelation 5:8

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Revelation 5:9
...​

Yes indeed soooo many references to having actual records in heaven - that are only useful to the non-God beings mentioned in Dan 7 - not at all need by God Himself.

in Christ,

Bob
​

 

[One Baptism]

Yes indeed soooo many references to having actual records in heaven - that are only useful to the non-God beings mentioned in Dan 7 - not at all need by God Himself.

in Christ,

Bob

It is written:

Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all [things]. - Proverbs 28:5​