Messianic Kingdom

[Pastor Larry]

That is not what Jesus means. He never say it is an earhtly.

He never says it isn't. Since he doestn' specify, we should assume that he was talking about a kingdom that every Jew would know about, and that was the one from the OT. It was earthly.

Pharisees came to Jesus, and asked him, "when the kingdom of God should come?" - Luke 17:20. Then, Christ said to them, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; Neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU." - Luke 17:20-21.

Christ said to them that the kingdom of God is not earthly or physical. It is spiritual.

Sorry ... must be my eyesight, but I can't see the word "spiritual" in that verse. Can you point it out?

Of course not. Because it isn't there. He was not telling teh Pharisees that the kingdom was spiritual. He was telling them that they were living in the midst of it. When he says "within you" he wasn't speaking of it being internal. He was saying "in your midst." Jesus would never tell the Pharisees who rejected him that the kingdom was inside of them. Not even your position argues that the kingdom is inside of Christ rejecting unbelievers. Yet the verse that you use here would have to mean just that. It doesn't.

Same with today's many Jews still believe that their Messiah would come to earth to set the kingdom in modern Jerusalem and to be world's capitol - literally and physical.

Why do they believe this? It is because it is what the OT says. And that hasn't changed.

This is a significant issue. You have to ask why the Jews believed what they did. It is because of what they were told in the OT. I think you guys do not reckon enough with the OT and the NT.

 

[OldRegular]

But OR, the earthly manifestation of the Kingdom of God was already here as the Nation of Israel. Israel had been chosen of God as that earthly kingdom millenia before His arrival.

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.​

Isaiah 49

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel,and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.​

I say "manifestation" because Israel was the tail and not the head of the nations when Jesus arrived. Because their disobedience of the past and the error and self-serving of it's leadership,Israel was in the perdicament that they were in: being in subjection to the Gentiles (Romans).

They should have been a light unto the nations but in many ways they were just like them and when their Messiah came the leadership of Israel rejected Him along with the Gentiles.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.​

Obviously God in His foreknowledge knew this would happen:

No dispensationalist that I know of believes that God was caught off guard by Israel's (along with the Gentiles) rejection of the Savior of mankind.

Mark 9

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.​

Luke 17
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.​

And in fact allowed it in His sovereign plan.

Acts 4

23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.​

Jesus taught this openly and plainly to His Apostles and disciples who apparently didn't understand until after the fact of His resurrection and the coming and enlightment of the Holy Spirit who brought all things that He had said back to them, back to their memory.​

Shortly before His Assumption they therefore asked Him​

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?​

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.​

The answer was positive, BUT, it was not the time for them to know precisely when Israel was to be restored. Their mission was to spread the gospel to the inhabited world, namely the Gentiles.​

Then when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled Israel will be restored to it's rightful place:​

Luke 21
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.​

Isaiah 2
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.​

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.​

To this very day we do not know the exact time of His coming back to earth but we do know that He WILL come and we (His Church) may even see some of the fore-shadows.


HankD​

All of the above is interesting for those who enjoy Scripture but none of it adresses the OP:

Dispensationalists argue that Jesus Christ came to offer the earthly Messianic Kingdom, that His offer was rejected and that He instituted the parenthesis form of the Kingdom, the Church, instead. Can someone or anyone show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews? Or am I just :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

Incidentally, well not incidentally, we the Church, will see Him when he returns in power and great glory as Judge of all the earth:

Revelation 1:7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

1John 3:2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Jude 1:15. To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Can someone or anyone show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

Yes, can and did. But you have not addressed it that I recall.

 

[OldRegular]

Dispensationalists argue that Jesus Christ came to offer the earthly Messianic Kingdom, that His offer was rejected and that He instituted the parenthesis form of the Kingdom, the Church, instead. I am still waiting for someone or anyone to show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews? I am slowly coming to the opinion that I am just:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

 

[Pastor Larry]

I have given two that you have yet to interact with. Why beat your head against the wall? Why not just deal with Scripture?

When Jesus said "Repent because the kingdom of heaven is at hand," what do you think he was offering?

When he told the Pharisees that the kingdom was "in their midst," do you really think he was telling the self-righteous Pharisees who had rejected him that the kingdom was inside of them?

You can repeat your mantra all day long but that wont' make it right. At the end, you still have to deal with Scripture. I am concluding that you can't. What else can I conclude? I have repeatedly posted these and you ignore them. Why?

 

[Amy.G]

I have given two that you have yet to interact with. Why beat your head against the wall? Why not just deal with Scripture?

When Jesus said "Repent because the kingdom of heaven is at hand," what do you think he was offering?

When he told the Pharisees that the kingdom was "in their midst," do you really think he was telling the self-righteous Pharisees who had rejected him that the kingdom was inside of them?

You can repeat your mantra all day long but that wont' make it right. At the end, you still have to deal with Scripture. I am concluding that you can't. What else can I conclude? I have repeatedly posted these and you ignore them. Why?

Ok. So if the Jews had accepted Christ as their Messiah, there would have been an earthly kingdom set up at that time and somehow they would have overtaken the Roman empire in order to restore power to Israel. The gospel would not have been taken to the Gentiles. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Ok. So if the Jews had accepted Christ as their Messiah, there would have been an earthly kingdom set up at that time and somehow they would have overtaken the Roman empire in order to restore power to Israel. The gospel would not have been taken to the Gentiles. Is that what you're saying?

In short, yes. I don't know how it all would have worked out. But in God's sovereignty, that's not how it worked out, and it was not going to. God hardened the hearts of Israel as he said in Romans 11 so that they would not accept their Messiah. That day is coming however, as the Scriptures make clear.

I don't think God has a plan B. It was all happening just as he decreed.

 

[Amy.G]

In short, yes. I don't know how it all would have worked out. But in God's sovereignty, that's not how it worked out, and it was not going to. God hardened the hearts of Israel as he said in Romans 11 so that they would not accept their Messiah. That day is coming however, as the Scriptures make clear.

I don't think God has a plan B. It was all happening just as he decreed.

I don't see where God ever intended to set up an earthly kingdom when Jesus came. It was His plan all along for things to happen just as they did. Christ came to fulfill the Law and secure eternal life for those that believe. His kingdom was always intended to be spiritual and will come to completion in the new heaven and new earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, which is composed of all believers from all time, both Jew and Gentile. That is the kingdom that He offered.

That's what I see in scripture anyway.

 

[OldRegular]

I don't see where God ever intended to set up an earthly kingdom when Jesus came. It was His plan all along for things to happen just as they did. Christ came to fulfill the Law and secure eternal life for those that believe. His kingdom was always intended to be spiritual and will come to completion in the new heaven and new earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, which is composed of all believers from all time, both Jew and Gentile. That is the kingdom that He offered.

That's what I see in scripture anyway.

You are 100% correct Amy. I would like to point out what Jesus Christ said in His High Priestly Prayer as recorded in John 17:

1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus Christ told the Father: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Did he tell the truth or not? Obviously He could not lie. If He came to establish the earthly Messianic Kingdom and did not then He could not have said: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. He came to die for sin and for the Church and that is what he did.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3.5. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Romans 5:6. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Acts 20:28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

You are also correct about the New Jerusalem and the New Heavens and Earth. The Apostle contrast the Old and new covenants and the earthly Jerusalem and the heavenly [New] Jerusalem in a parable in Galatians 4:24-31. The parable tells us that some would have us children of the bondwoman but Jesus Christ made us children of the free.

 

[Allan]

I don't see where God ever intended to set up an earthly kingdom when Jesus came. It was His plan all along for things to happen just as they did. Christ came to fulfill the Law and secure eternal life for those that believe. His kingdom was always intended to be spiritual and will come to completion in the new heaven and new earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, which is composed of all believers from all time, both Jew and Gentile. That is the kingdom that He offered.

That's what I see in scripture anyway.

Amy, please show where God's Kingdom was always intended to be spiritual.

You have effectively made God liar in this statement that He had/has no intention of doing what He said He would to both for and toward the Jews in His promises of the OT. If the Land is only Spiritual then why did they have to go and take the land in which God promised them?

You are stating that God told His people something that was meaningless and filled them full of hope in something that was a lie because He had no intension of doing it.
They did what He told them to do in order to obtain the "promised Land". What your saying is that there was really no land promised and God had them killing and waring for something that was not even theirs.

You do realize that an earthly Kingdom was what the church (in the vast majority) held to for the first 400+ years of Christianity. The apostles very own disciples, people theytaught and trained up, proclaimed the coming of an earthly Kingdom of Christ Jesus.

As I said before, get you a good book on dispensationalism or at the very least pre-mill. There are tons of sites on line but be very selective about what you take for the general view. Until then you will only feed one side and that is all you will see. Keep context of all the passages and look to 'all' the words/wording.

Other than that -- Have a Blessed Christmas :thumbs:

 

[Allan]

You are 100% correct Amy. I would like to point out what Jesus Christ said in His High Priestly Prayer as recorded in John 17:

1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus Christ told the Father: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Did he tell the truth or not? Obviously He could not lie. If He came to establish the earthly Messianic Kingdom and did not then He could not have said: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. He came to die for sin and for the Church and that is what he did.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3.5. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Romans 5:6. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Acts 20:28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

You are also correct about the New Jerusalem and the New Heavens and Earth. The Apostle contrast the Old and new covenants and the earthly Jerusalem and the heavenly [New] Jerusalem in a parable in Galatians 4:24-31. The parable tells us that some would have us children of the bondwoman but Jesus Christ made us children of the free.

Apparently you still can keep any scripture in context.

He finished the work the Father gave him to do. NOW, let us take YOUR rendering and see if Christ lied. Did He yet die? Was it not there that He declared IT IS FINISHED. According to you Christ is a liar since He was not finished when He said He was.

Or .. could it be that Christ had finished the work God gave Him to do before His death. Could it possibly be that there was more than one thing that Christ was to do but that it had to be done in segments? Oh My, it just might be :smilewinkgrin: Maybe, just maybe... Let's look:

What did God give Jesus to do in John 17..

Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

What was the eternal life that God wanted Christ to give..

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And what does Jesus say of this..

Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And who were those given to Christ for this...

Jhn 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Apparently so far this pray is for the disciples.
So how do we know that Christ really fulfilled that which God gave Him to do..

Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Then the prayer extends beyond the disciples to all who will hear because of them..

Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Thus from here His previous prayer becomes inclusive toward these as well.

Do you understand the concept of context? I'm not being mean but I'm being serious.

 

[OldRegular]

Apparently you still can keep any scripture in context.

He finished the work the Father gave him to do. NOW, let us take YOUR rendering and see if Christ lied. Did He yet die? Was it not there that He declared IT IS FINISHED. According to you Christ is a liar since He was not finished when He said He was.

Or .. could it be that Christ had finished the work God gave Him to do before His death. Could it possibly be that there was more than one thing that Christ was to do but that it had to be done in segments? Oh My, it just might be :smilewinkgrin: Maybe, just maybe... Let's look:

What did God give Jesus to do in John 17..

What was the eternal life that God wanted Christ to give..

And what does Jesus say of this..

And who were those given to Christ for this...

Apparently so far this pray is for the disciples.
So how do we know that Christ really fulfilled that which God gave Him to do..

Then the prayer extends beyond the disciples to all who will hear because of them..

Thus from here His previous prayer becomes inclusive toward these as well.

Do you understand the concept of context? I'm not being mean but I'm being serious.

Sounds like you are being a typical dispensationalist! One thing I have noticed about dispensationalists is that they are quick to tie the word lie to the Triune Godhead. Is it that you people are not really certain about the holiness of God? Furthermore, if there is anyone who doesn't understand context it is dispensationalist.

 

[Allan]

Sounds like you are being a typical dispensationalist! One thing I have noticed about dispensationalists is that they are quick to tie the word lie to the Triune Godhead. Is it that you people are not really certain about the holiness of God? Furthermore, if there is anyone who doesn't understand context it is dispensationalist.

IOW - you were wrong once again but can't admit it. However I will admit one thing, I am acting no different than you are and have been. So either you are a closet dispensationalist or your wrong yet again.

Secondly, if God says He will do one thing and then does another - it is a lie.
You did not look at the context of John 17 and thus your statement was false because if what you said were true Jesus would have lied that He has already finished (have finished - from your quote of scripture). The terms here are 'past tense' meaning already completed and thus nothing else need be done. And Yet on the Cross He states "It is Finished" AFTER He already stated it WAS finished.

Can you not honestly see your error and admit it?


But, I will state and publically appologize for my attitude in my posts toward you.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I don't see where God ever intended to set up an earthly kingdom when Jesus came. It was His plan all along for things to happen just as they did. Christ came to fulfill the Law and secure eternal life for those that believe. His kingdom was always intended to be spiritual and will come to completion in the new heaven and new earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, which is composed of all believers from all time, both Jew and Gentile. That is the kingdom that He offered.

Then why did he describe an earthly kingdom in the OT? How much time have you spent in the OT?

I don't think God "intended" to set up an earthly kingdom when Jesus came. He intends to set it up later, just as he promised. But it stretches language past the breaking point to see the OT as a promise of anything other than an earthly kingdom, a restoration of what previously existed.

That's what I see in scripture anyway.

I don't see that in Scripture. So how do we decide? I think we have to go to the words of the text, and see what they mean. I contend, and I think it has been demonstrated, that whenever we get to the actual words, your side doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Jesus Christ told the Father: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Did he tell the truth or not? Obviously He could not lie. If He came to establish the earthly Messianic Kingdom and did not then He could not have said: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. He came to die for sin and for the Church and that is what he did.

Exactly. This is the point. He didn't come to establish the kingdom because he knew it would be rejected. Remeber a "partial hardening has happened to Israel" so that the "fulness of the Gentiles would come in" (Romans 11).

As has been pointed out, he didn't come to establish the earthly kingdom. God hardened Israel until the church is complete. Then all Israel will be saved.

The fact that he offers the kingdom (as he did and you still have not responded to these clear texts) does not mean that he intended to establish it. He knew what Israel would do.

Again, we see that when we look at Scripture, dispensationalism has far fewer problems.

 

[Pastor Larry]

One thing I have noticed about dispensationalists is that they are quick to tie the word lie to the Triune Godhead. Is it that you people are not really certain about the holiness of God?

Incorrect. We are pointing out that your position has the ultimate danger of making God a liar because it doesn't have God fuflilling his promises. It is not us with that problem.

Furthermore, if there is anyone who doesn't understand context it is dispensationalist.

Again, simply incorrect. We are the ones who insist on context. You are the ones who want to ignore it.

What we see over and over again is that you cannot deal with Scripture. As a result, you end up just ignoring the Scriptures that are brought up. We recognize that is because you don't have an answer to it.

 

[HankD]

Part 1

Dispensationalists argue that Jesus Christ came to offer the earthly Messianic Kingdom, that His offer was rejected and that He instituted the parenthesis form of the Kingdom, the Church, instead. Can someone or anyone show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

First I think (just my opinion) that we would be better off just telling each other we are mistaken instead of using the "L" word.

We all know that God cannot lie and that most if not all of us involved in this debate are not intentionally lying. The fact is that we can learn much from each other. Personally, I think OR has brought up an excellent point.

Pastor Larry tried to answer with the statement that Jesus said "the kingdom of God is at hand".

True, it was there in a form but Israel was in subjection to the Gentiles and not the Light of the Nations. The Scripture explains that Jesus was/is the promised Messiah to come. That would mean that He would set up the Nation of Israel as the head of the nations and that the Gentile nations would flow into Israel to worship the King over all the Nations and learn from Him and those whom He had appointed as promises in several places in the OT.

But they rejected Him and many of us have shown several verses to that end. Not only that but as Pastor Larry has said and it has shown in Scripture that it was part of the sovereign plan of God.

Therefore the kingdom was taken from Israel and given to "another nation" (again found in Scripture). Later the Apostles even asked Jesus if He would restore the kingdom to Israel. Jesus gave an answer that was more positive than negative by telling them (in effect) that the time was not right for them to know the times or seasons.

For one thing the Spirit of God had not yet been sent to give power and enlightenment.

Did Jesus Christ definitively offer an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

The answer is yes and no (wait a minute, the election is over). No (apart from the statement "the Kingdom of God is at hand, which apparently is not enough scriptural evidence for OR – and others), but yes, it can be surmised from the Acts of the Apostles, those men who He had commissioned to speak in His name through the Holy Ghost..

After the Holy Ghost had come upon the Apostles (so it was really Jesus speaking through them) they said this:

Acts 2
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


End part 1
HankD

 

[HankD]

part 2

Acts 3
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Acts 5
17 Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,
18 And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison.



Acts 7
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Acts 13
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Even after the resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit the Apostles offered pre-eminence to the nation of Israel. Again they refused and killed and rejected the Apostles and disciples.

Through this temporary fall, Israel (unknowingly) opened the door of the gospel to the whole of the Gentile Nation.

In spite of their past sins, including the rejection of their messiah, God still loves them and will forgive their sin:

Isaiah 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

…
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

End part 2
HankD

 

[HankD]

Part 3

Part 3

Zechariah 12
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Personally I don’t see how Scripture can be any plainer; One day Israel will repent of their sin and be restored to their rightful place of pre-eminence among the nations as promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Book of Revelation clearly delineates between “every eye” and “they which pierced Him” Israel as well as those gentile nations which had rejected Him.

The Prophet Zechariah clearly says that grace will be poured out upon the nation of Israel down to the very tribes. The Book of Revelation numbers the restored Nation and those tribes.

Revelation Chapter 11 and the woman clothed in the sun of signifying Redeemed Israel as well.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Do not be mistaken, God will keep His promise..

HankD

 

[OldRegular]

HankD

You got one thing right: God will keep His promise. You njust don't understand how! I would advise you to read Acts 15:13-18:

13. And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.