Do Baptist care about church history?

[puros_bran]

I'm going to ask a general question that will be easy to pick apart with exceptions, but I'm not speaking of the exceptions.

Why do Baptist not seem concerned with Church history?
The early Church fathers?
The history of Baptist? Baptist persecution in colonial America? Etc etc...

Are these things not important?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm going to ask a general question that will be easy to pick apart with exceptions, but I'm not speaking of the exceptions.

Why do Baptist not seem concerned with Church history?
The early Church fathers?
The history of Baptist? Baptist persecution in colonial America? Etc etc...

Are these things not important?

They are and its a wrong premise. Very Conserned. In fact, You'll fine baptist who adhere to the "Trail of Blood" Pamphlet about origins of the baptist faith (accurate or not is another debate). There are others who care about the authenticity and historical accuracy found in the AV 1611. So there is a lot of Baptist who look at history.

Now I like studying all those things you mention I sometimes bring them up and ask questions about them. Some give me good replies. Others not so much but there are tons of history views by baptist. And since there are so many different kinds of baptist there are also differing views of history.

 

[tinytim]

Some ignorance.. some willingly ignorant.
Some have been told not to believe church history because it has been twisted by the RCC.
Some put more faith in their pastor than they should.
So they believe what their pastor tells them because it is easier than finding the truth for themselves.
And lies get passed down from one generation to another.

I for one LOVE church history.
I don't think we can properly interpret the Bible if we seperate the history from it.

Church history is fascinating.. sometimes I shake my head wondering why they did what they did.. but I realize God is in control.

I especially love reading the history of the early Baptists, and the founding of our country.

I have a pamphlet that was written in 1853. In it it has the beliefs of the Baptists.
Some beliefs have changed....
Like there is no mention of the Rapture, trib period, they believed in a general resurrection.. saved go to Heaven, lost go to Hell...

Without reading history, we would not see the distortions Darby and Scofield made in Christianity. And we are doomed to believe lies.

History is very important.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I'm going to ask a general question that will be easy to pick apart with exceptions, but I'm not speaking of the exceptions.

Why do Baptist not seem concerned with Church history?
The early Church fathers?
The history of Baptist? Baptist persecution in colonial America? Etc etc...

Are these things not important?

These are very important . . but remember, we are accepting a level of ignorance as "standard" especially among Baptist pastors/elders. They have received little or no real education and history as been downplayed as unnecessary.

Those who forget the lessons of history are, as the old saw goes, doomed to repeat them.

So in place of the ante-nicene fathers and the battle for a pure Word of God they spout nonsense from Ruckman or Hyles about the Anglican Version (like English means anything in the scheme of history)

Or they've been so blinded by the Landmark unprovable nonsense that they think Baptists have no roots in the Reformation. Ask them about the five "solas" and they'll think your talking Pavarotti.

And American history of Baptists? Many are duped into thinking the tiny fraction of "independent" Baptists are somehow "mainstream" and "historical" and they couldn't tell you about Colonial days, Triennial Convention, 1845, the demise of the NBC and modern exodus from cooperation into man-followers of mini-denominations.

Sad. History is a MUST and needs to be woven into teaching and preaching to keep our heritage alive.

Good questions.

 

[tinytim]

Yeah.. what Dr. Bob said!!! LOL...

He said what I meant..

 

[Jon-Marc]

Personally, I couldn't care less about ANY history. I have always thought of the past as just that--past, and not of any interest to me. I have enough difficulty keeping up with the here and now without concerning myself with the past that may or may not be correctly written since we know history is written by the victors and not the losers.

 

[Robert Snow]

Personally, I couldn't care less about ANY history. I have always thought of the past as just that--past, and not of any interest to me. I have enough difficulty keeping up with the here and now without concerning myself with the past that may or may not be correctly written since we know history is written by the victors and not the losers.

I guess that means you will be doomed to repeat this statement again later. :laugh:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Personally, I couldn't care less about ANY history. I have always thought of the past as just that--past, and not of any interest to me. I have enough difficulty keeping up with the here and now without concerning myself with the past that may or may not be correctly written since we know history is written by the victors and not the losers.

Which catagory do you find yourself?

 

[OldRegular]

At a time when Baptists are embracing everything that comes down the road

1. from rock music to seven lines chanted eleven times or vice versa,
2. from worship in spirit and truth to anything that draws a crowd is acceptable,
3. from evolutionary doctrine to abortion [survival of the already born],
4. from one people of God to two peoples of God,
5. from the Biblical Doctrines of Grace to a works based salvation,

they refuse to learn from history that error begets heresy and that the RCC was not born overnight but took almost 2000 years to get from baptismal regeneration to the assumption of Mary and the movement to make her co-redeemer.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Am I interested in Church History? Sure. But I do not give it enough priority to sit down and actually study it. I read some on it here and there, but definitly do not know much about it.

 

[Tater77]

Now this doesn't count for everyone but here is what I have experienced.

Most are clueless as to how the Bible was transmitted over time. Off the internet, I know 2 people that know anything about manuscripts. Just because they have seminary degrees.

Church history goes like this: Jews(Moses etc), Jesus, Apostles, Paul.................................... Present day. Total gap in knowledge.

Church fathers, ask someone about Polycarp and they will think your talking about fishing. Its sad but true.

My wife was actually shocked when I gave her a basic overview of church history. I was watching "Banned from the Bible" on the history channel, she got mad and said that it was all lies and didn't believe me when I told her that the first King James had 80 books instead of 66. I had to show her a 1611 reprint at Lifeway.

Like I said, this has just been my experience.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Now this doesn't count for everyone but here is what I have experienced.

Most are clueless as to how the Bible was transmitted over time. Off the internet, I know 2 people that know anything about manuscripts. Just because they have seminary degrees.

Church history goes like this: Jews(Moses etc), Jesus, Apostles, Paul.................................... Present day. Total gap in knowledge.

Church fathers, ask someone about Polycarp and they will think your talking about fishing. Its sad but true.

My wife was actually shocked when I gave her a basic overview of church history. I was watching "Banned from the Bible" on the history channel, she got mad and said that it was all lies and didn't believe me when I told her that the first King James had 80 books instead of 66. I had to show her a 1611 reprint at Lifeway.

Like I said, this has just been my experience.

I would have to agree with you generally speaking. Which is why such things as re-writing history to suit your particular faith or denomination. People generally don't know the wealth of christian literature that has come down to us in these days. Polycarp, Clement, Ignatius, Barnabas, Ireaneus, Hermas, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Athenasius, Jerome, Augustine, Ambrose, Eusibius, and many many more. Not to mention the Ecuminical councils and the wealth of Christian doctrine to be found there. You can spend your life studing all these things.

 

[Jerome]

It is galling when Baptist history is repeatedly misrepresented here, as in:

"historically the Baptists have been amillennial"
or "the early Baptists rejected the Anglican KJV in favor of the Geneva Bible"
or "historically Baptist churches were elder ruled".

 

[puros_bran]

RevMitchell....I'm unsure what you meant by 'premise'. If you meant my semi-satement question that Baptist don't seem to care about church history, I'm just drawing off of 35 years of attending various flavors of Baptist Church. If you thought I was trying to set up a question in order to prove some off the wall point, I assure you I am not. I'm just curious.
I do think we should know where we come from,the evolutions and schisms, how we ended up where we are. I realize some carry the history to the point of a semi-canon state and others care so little that when Clement is brought up they think we are talking about MLB pitchers... If I have to have a premise, position, or whatever I guess I'm in trouble. .

 

[Dr. Bob]

It is galling when Baptist history is repeatedly misrepresented here, as in:

"historically the Baptists have been amillennial"
or "the early Baptists rejected the Anglican KJV in favor of the Geneva Bible"
or "historically Baptist churches were elder ruled".

What part of those 3 were NOT true?? Even the greatest Baptist theologian (A.H.Strong) whose theology is the foundation of even the most fundamental seminaries, was a mill. Modern Dispensationalism is only 100 years old and Baptists have been around since 1607.

Almost EVERYONE rejected the Anglican Version. The Pilgrims and Puritans would not allow one in America. They ALL hated the Bishop (Great) Bible and its revision (what some today call the KJV). It was not until decades later, when the Geneva Bible was not allowed to be printed or distributed, that the AV was grudgingly used.

Just parallel today as if the KJV (whatever revision they're doing) was no longer printed or distributed and another Translation pushed instead. It would take about 50 years for the KJV to fade to obscurity. Thus it was in 1611 and the next 50 years.

And elder led (not "rule", that is a mistranslation that implies autocratic authority) is 100% Bible. No other example. Just point to a NT church in Acts with only one elder. So Baptists (from the very first - with Smythe AND Helwyss) have promoted the biblical concept of plural leadership.

Again, the last 100 years have seen the rise of the strong man-centered churches . . most of which have done more to destroy the Baptist heritage.

Ah, well. You have the right to your myopia.

 

[EdSutton]

Ah, well. You have the right to your myopia.

ARRGH!

I don't have myopia these days; I have presbyopia.

Unfortunately, that did not prevent me from being scared for the second time in two days by a new 'picture' of a Baptist Board Administrator.

Yesterday it was C4K.

Today it is supposed to be Dr. Bob!

(Who will it be tomorrow?? And what have you done with the real Dr. Bob??)

Please put on a hat or a bow-tie, so we can all still recognize your picture!

Ed

 

[tinytim]

Dr. Bob has just adopted the casual look!..

This is a historical event!

This is the day you will tell your grandchildren about...
The day Dr. Bob shuned his bowtie, and donned the casual look!!!

This is a day in Baptist history that is special!
Let's celebrate it by reading Fox's Book of Martyrs!!!

 

[TCGreek]

I care about the Baptist Heritage. I've notice the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Such is the human drama, in any circle, with as long as a history as the Baptists.

But I care more about Redemptive History and what God is doing in the world to put it to rights.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I guess that means you will be doomed to repeat this statement again later. :laugh:

I had someone tell me recently that I do that anyway. I had someone tell me--Oh, I just said that didn't I? :laugh:

 

[Jon-Marc]

Which catagory do you find yourself?

I didn't see any categories.