Wordly music or Christian Lyrics?

[tinytim]

SUCH Rebellion!!! Imagine singing this to God!

Strength will rise as we wait upon the Lord
We will wait upon the Lord
We will wait upon the Lord

Our God, You reign forever
Our hope, our Strong Deliverer
You are the everlasting God
The everlasting God
You do not faint
You won't grow weary

Our God, You reign forever
Our hope, our Strong Deliverer
You are the everlasting God
The everlasting God
You do not faint
You won't grow weary

You're the defender of the weak
You comfort those in need
You lift us up on wings like eagles

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric....Chris-Tomlin/01637EACF9194844482571F700070D82

 

[annsni]

I must start out by saying that I am sorry to hear that your daughters were attacked physically for their faith. I hate to see persecution going on, but we are promised that it will take place. I feel for you and your daughters.

As far as rebellion goes, are you saying that your daughters have never rebelled in their whole life? What about rebelling against God?

I can't say for 100% sure because I don't see their hearts but never once in their actions, words or deeds have they rebelled against God. They both have such hearts for God that it humbles me.

 

[tinytim]

OH, and what about this one...

God Rules​

GOD rules.
On your toes, everybody!
He rules from his angel throne--take notice!​

GOD looms
majestic in Zion,
He towers in splendor over
all the big names.​

Great and terrible your beauty:
let everyone praise you!
Holy. Yes, holy.​

How many of you would say that is horrible?
BTW, how many here have heard this song?
Any guessers on who sings this song?​

 

[securityofficer2008]

I can't say for 100% sure because I don't see their hearts but never once in their actions, words or deeds have they rebelled against God. They both have such hearts for God that it humbles me.

Never once in their actions, words, or deeds have they rebelled against God? I know that you understand that at sometime in their lives they have rebelled against God (I am talking about sinning against Him). I understand that they both have such hearts for God, but the fact is still that they have sinned at some point in their lives. However, God has forgiven them of their sins. Therefore, why should they go back to rebelling against Him? They should not, right?

I am not attacking you or your daughters. I thank God that they have hearts for God at that age. I am simply using them as an example. Please understand this that way.

 

[thegospelgeek]

SO,

you seam to throw CCM with Rock and Roll. Very little CCM is Rock, most is POP. It ranges from Acoustic Guitars to piano to full rock band with those evil drums and such. So is your argument against CCM or Rock music? Are you against such music in the church or all together? Can you give me an example of what music you do like?

I promise no name calling from me.

 

[annsni]

Never once in their actions, words, or deeds have they rebelled against God? I know that you understand that at sometime in their lives they have rebelled against God (I am talking about sinning against Him). I understand that they both have such hearts for God, but the fact is still that they have sinned at some point in their lives. However, God has forgiven them of their sins. Therefore, why should they go back to rebelling against Him? They should not, right?

I am not attacking you or your daughters. I thank God that they have hearts for God at that age. I am simply using them as an example. Please understand this that way.

Everyone has sinned and every one of us will sin again. However, they do not have hearts of rebellion - even when listening to "rock" music. You say that rock music causes rebellion. I say it does not always. LIFE causes rebellion - being a human being with a human nature causes rebellion. It's not the music but more likely the world that the music is played in. My children listen to good Christian music - contemporary as it is - in a solid Christian home, with Christian friends in a solid church. Someone else can listen to rock music but be in a different life - one of rebellious friends, drinking, promiscuity and be rebellious. It's not the music because I've seen rebellion in children who grew up in solid Christian homes where NO rock music was involved as I've seen it in unChristian homes where the child hated rock music and only wanted to listen to old classical stuff. It's not the music that causes rebellion - it's an evil heart in an atmosphere of rebellion. BIG difference.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It has been proven in a lab study that animals that were introduced to Rock and Roll music. This study was done by a neurobiologist that wanted to disprove the affects of Rock and Roll music, but had to admit that he was wrong when he found out that the culprit of the detrimental effects on the animals was rhythm.

And it was proven in the movie "Rock and Roll High School" that mice exploded when made to listen to the Ramones at high volume.

But that doesn't make rock and roll bad.

Rock and Roll is associated with rebellion.

By whom?

Why would you want to mix Christian lyrics with music that is associated with rebellion?

Because we don't associate it with rebellion.

If we break all this down into a formula we would come up with this: rock and roll = rebellion, rebellion= against God's nature, against God's nature = sin, therefore rock and roll = sin (plain and simple).

Your sylogism is fatally flawed.Your first premise assumes that rock and roll equals rebellion. It does not.

Everything that Rock and Roll stands for (drugs, relationships, drinking, smoking, cussing, being a "hell raiser", rebellion, etc) is against the very nature of God.

I didn't realize that relationships were against the very nature of God. Learn something new every day.

But my question is, what about that rock music that doesn't have anything to do with "drugs...drinking, smoking, cussing, being a 'hell raiser'. rebellion, etc"?

I can think of several rock songs that have nothing to do with those things.

How can you tell me that there is going to be Rock and Roll, Rap, and other forms of CCM in Heaven?

I don't believe there will be rock and roll, rap, or other forms of CCM in Heaven, but not for the same reason you do. (Excuse me a second while I steele myself for the usual subjects to jump on me and say that I'm condemning rock and roll and people who listen to it)

I don't believe those things will be in Heaven, not because there is anything morally wrong with them, but because will have something better for us.

But in the mean time, we are here and this is what we have. As long as it does not glorify sin or encourage one to sin, there is nothing at all wrong with enjoying it.

((Uh oh, here come the Max Lucado fans.))

 

[securityofficer2008]

SO,

you seam to throw CCM with Rock and Roll. Very little CCM is Rock, most is POP. It ranges from Acoustic Guitars to piano to full rock band with those evil drums and such. So is your argument against CCM or Rock music? Are you against such music in the church or all together? Can you give me an example of what music you do like?

I promise no name calling from me.

I am against all music that is Christian that has ties to the world (i.e. Christian Rock, Christian Rap, Christian Pop, etc.). My argument is against these forms of "music" from a church service standpoint. However, I do not listen to them in my personal life as I would feel like a hypocrite saying it should not be in the church, but it is in my life. I am not going to fight the battle of what you do in your personal life. However, I think that the battle needs to be faught for these styles of "Christian music" infiltrating our church services. I like for the old hymns that contain the correct doctrine from the Bible.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You are all over the board! Something can be "too man centered" in one church and be worship...just not in yours?

Yes, people in different churches can have different opinions.

Show a little consistancy, man!

I'll show some consistency when you show some manners.

Whether you like it or not, something "man centered" IS worldly...not just in your church, but in EVERY church in the world.

I disagree. It has very much to do with perception, as we're seeing with the debate in this thread between Security Officer and several people here.

 

[corndogggy]

Never once in their actions, words, or deeds have they rebelled against God? I know that you understand that at sometime in their lives they have rebelled against God (I am talking about sinning against Him). I understand that they both have such hearts for God, but the fact is still that they have sinned at some point in their lives. However, God has forgiven them of their sins. Therefore, why should they go back to rebelling against Him? They should not, right?

If the worst two teenagers are doing is listening to Christian rock, they're doing pretty dang good, and I would HARDLY call that being rebellious.

 

[securityofficer2008]

And it was proven in the movie "Rock and Roll High School" that mice exploded when made to listen to the Ramones at high volume.

But that doesn't make rock and roll bad.



By whom?



Because we don't associate it with rebellion.



Your sylogism is fatally flawed.Your first premise assumes that rock and roll equals rebellion. It does not.



I didn't realize that relationships were against the very nature of God. Learn something new every day.

But my question is, what about that rock music that doesn't have anything to do with "drugs...drinking, smoking, cussing, being a 'hell raiser'. rebellion, etc"?

I can think of several rock songs that have nothing to do with those things.



I don't believe there will be rock and roll, rap, or other forms of CCM in Heaven, but not for the same reason you do. (Excuse me a second while I steele myself for the usual subjects to jump on me and say that I'm condemning rock and roll and people who listen to it)

I don't believe those things will be in Heaven, not because there is anything morally wrong with them, but because will have something better for us.

But in the mean time, we are here and this is what we have. As long as it does not glorify sin or encourage one to sin, there is nothing at all wrong with enjoying it.

((Uh oh, here come the Max Lucado fans.))

So Rock and Roll in general is not associated with rebellion and "hell raising". I beg to differ. What I mean by relationships is not the kind that you are talking about. I am talking about intimate times between a man and a woman (sexually). This is what Rock and Roll is all about. Therefore the formula still stands: Rock and Roll = Rebellion = sin

 

[corndogggy]

Very little CCM is Rock, most is POP.

Exactly. If the attack was directed towards Christian bands that have a double bass drum, heavy distortion, playing chunky riffs in drop-D on the electric, and a crazy screaming front man, I could almost understand. Most of it just cannot be compared to the dark side of rock at all. If you CAN compare it, you really need to get out more. I HAVE heard bands like this, and I would almost agree, IF that is what we were talking about, but it's not.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

So Rock and Roll in general is not associated with rebellion and "hell raising". I beg to differ.

And you're certainly welcome to your opinion but I, and others like me, who have never thought of rock and roll as having anything to do with rebellion, are evidence that not everyone associates it with rebellion.

What I mean by relationships is not the kind that you are talking about. I am talking about intimate times between a man and a woman (sexually).

Is sexual intimacy a bad thing?

This is what Rock and Roll is all about. Therefore the formula still stands: Rock and Roll = Rebellion = sin

Again, your sylogism is fatally flawed. Not only does rock and roll not equal sin, but there are many (if not most) rock songs that have nothing to do with sex, and sex is not sinful.

 

[securityofficer2008]

And you're certainly welcome to your opinion but I, and others like me, who have never thought of rock and roll as having anything to do with rebellion, are evidence that not everyone associates it with rebellion.



Is sexual intimacy a bad thing?



Again, your sylogism is fatally flawed. Not only does rock and roll not equal sin, but there are many (if not most) rock songs that have nothing to do with sex, and sex is not sinful.

Your right sex is not a bad thing when it is between a man and a woman who are married. However, Rock and Roll (the term) originated when a car would rock and roll from two people that were unmarried were engaging in sexual acts in the back seat of the car while this style of music was being played on the radio. Tell me that is not bad. Rock and Roll from the 60's until now is still associated with rebellion. It is against God and it is called sin when it is against God. Therefore, the formula still stands!!!

 

[annsni]

I am against all music that is Christian that has ties to the world (i.e. Christian Rock, Christian Rap, Christian Pop, etc.). My argument is against these forms of "music" from a church service standpoint. However, I do not listen to them in my personal life as I would feel like a hypocrite saying it should not be in the church, but it is in my life. I am not going to fight the battle of what you do in your personal life. However, I think that the battle needs to be faught for these styles of "Christian music" infiltrating our church services. I like for the old hymns that contain the correct doctrine from the Bible.

Every ..... single ..... form of music has ties to the world. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

That is except for the music that nature plays for Jesus. Did you ever hear the stars sing? It's actually in a very strong beat, from what I've heard.

 

[annsni]

If the worst two teenagers are doing is listening to Christian rock, they're doing pretty dang good, and I would HARDLY call that being rebellious.

Shhh - I have to admit - my 16 year old was trying to find songs for a camp this summer that will focus on God's creation and she was.....

gasp......

umm......

dancing

 

[corndogggy]

If you're not going to consider the lyrics, then the problem is that you've got the equation backwards. Just because sinful people like a particular kind of music, that does not mean that this particular kind of music makes people sinful.

You're obsessed with fairly recent history. Consider generations of the past. Gangsters and people in the speakeasy places listened to jazz, broadway musicals, a single piano, horns, etc. Old outlaw moonshiners listened to bluegrass. Whiskey drinking outlaws in the 1800's would listen to a single piano. Irish drunks would sing with no instruments in bars. Viking warriors while rowing would sing nearly identical to old nego spiritual songs.

You get the point. Does this mean all those styles are sinful? Just because a sinful group likes a particular kind of music doesn't mean that this style of music will make a person sinful, especially when you can't consider the lyrics at all.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

However, Rock and Roll (the term) originated when a car would rock and roll from two people that were unmarried were engaging in sexual acts in the back seat of the car while this style of music was being played on the radio. Tell me that is not bad.

That isn't bad.

Fornicating in the back seat of a car is bad. Using a slang term for fornicating in the back seat of a car does not make the thing that slang term is applied to bad.

If the name is all that's worrying you, then I have no problem with calling it something else. Let's say we call it "Puppies and Rainbows". Would it still be bad?

Rock and Roll from the 60's until now is still associated with rebellion. It is against God and it is called sin when it is against God. Therefore, the formula still stands!!!

But it doesn't stand because not all of us associate it with rebellion. Like I said, I can think of dozens of rock songs that have nothing at all to do with rebellion.

 

[rbell]

Securityofficer...

In post #109, I asked some specific questions germane to the discussion. I realize that this is an active thread...but I have yet to see you address a single point made on that post. I'm not surprised...but I challenge you to read that particular post and respond. I think you will find that it is Scripturally informed, factually correct, and logically sound.

I await your response...

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Securityofficer...

In post #109, I asked some specific questions germane to the discussion. I realize that this is an active thread...but I have yet to see you address a single point made on that post. I'm not surprised...but I challenge you to read that particular post and respond. I think you will find that it is Scripturally informed, factually correct, and logically sound.

I await your response...

Don't feel bad, he won't answer my questions, either.