Wordly music or Christian Lyrics?

[corndogggy]

The reason it started being associated with the modern style of music is because a DJ named Alan Freed wanted a term to call this new modern R&B music for black folks instead of calling it "race music" like the record execs did. I imagine he got that term because blacks had been using that term in their songs, including gospel, for decades. When you've got a DJ using that term across the airwaves, it will spread pretty quickly. You can't say the term originated in the 50's because there are examples of the term used in recorded songs well before that.

Calling a genre "rock and roll" anymore though, is pretty dorky. Just call it rock like everybody else in the modern world.

 

[padredurand]

Fornicating in the back seat of a car is what gave Rock and Roll its name. It was used to describe that style of music. It was associated with fornication.

Emphatic statements without citation is just an opinion.

"Disk jockey Alan Freed is widely credited with coining the term “rock and roll” to describe the uptempo black R&B records he played as early as 1951 on Cleveland radio station WJW. Freed called himself “the Moondog” and billed his show as the “Moondog Rock ‘n’ Roll Party.” A tireless and enthusiastic advocate of the music he played, Freed kept time to his favorite records by beating his hands on a phone book. He called it rock and roll because “it seemed to suggest the rolling, surging beat of the music.” The Freed-sponsored 1952 Moondog Coronation Ball in Cleveland is believed to be the nation’s first rock and roll concert. After conquering Cleveland, he took his show to WINS New York. There, he further spread the gospel of rock and roll via TV, movies and the celebrated all-star shows he promoted at Brooklyn’s Paramount Theater. Those stage shows remain the essential rock and roll revues of the era." From the "Official Alan Freed Website"

Dictionary.com has several citations for "rock and roll" and only Harper's Etymology Dictionary has any reference sexual activity. Harper states, "The verbal phrase had been a Black Eng. euphemism for "sexual intercourse," used in popular dance music lyrics and song titles since at least the 1934s." ibid. Harper does not cite his sources for this etymological conclusion so one can assume it is just opinion.

Archie Green, author of Only a Miner, which was published by University of Illinois Press in 1972 has argued that rock 'n' roll goes back to the rhythmic exchanges between the hammer man and his shaker, who held the drill and rolled it between blows.

John Henry fought the machine, won the battle, and died with a hammer in his hand, building the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway in the 1870s toward the hard mountains on the Virginia-West Virginia. The song most likely took shape in the 1870s or 1880s, probably first as a hammer song, which railroad tunnelers used to pace themselves as they bored through solid rock.

Green's assessment follows Freed's "rolling surge of the beat." The work song genre is as old as man. Man labors more efficiently when the pace is methodical. Just ask somebody who has rowed or mowed hay with a scythe. What I don't understand is the assumption that any music genre that evokes a rythmic movement automatically is associated with fornication. I would believe the evidence to support the rock and roll fornication connection would be, at best, anecdotal.

I've been listening to Sons of Korah on Youtube. The lyrics to this song is Psalm 117 in its entirity. Again, all the lyrics are Psalm 117. Would it be appropriate in a worship setting?

 

[thegospelgeek]

Thought it was kinda funny that some thought "Who am I" by Casting Crowns was inapropriate because it was about self when it come from the Psalms.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Uh...you rarely hear modern or contemporary music described as "Rock and Roll" anymore. The original 50s R&R has morphed and split into several genres. Also, interesting stuff on Wikipedia, shows the term was even used in a religious context. From HERE.

Before then, the phrase "rocking and rolling", as secular black slang for dancing or sex, appeared on record for the first time in 1922 on Trixie Smith's "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll". Even earlier, in 1916, the term "rocking and rolling" was used with a religious connotation, on the phonograph record "The Camp Meeting Jubilee" by an unnamed male "quartette".[5] The word "rock" had a long history in the English language as a metaphor for "to shake up, to disturb or to incite". In 1937, Chick Webb and Ella Fitzgerald recorded "Rock It for Me," which included the lyric, "So won't you satisfy my soul with the rock and roll." "Rocking" was a term used by black gospel singers in the American South to mean something akin to spiritual rapture. By the 1940s, however, the term was used as a double entendre, ostensibly referring to dancing, but with the subtextual meaning of sex, as in Roy Brown's "Good Rocking Tonight." The verb "roll" was a medieval metaphor which meant "having sex". Writers for hundreds of years have used the phrases "They had a roll in the hay" or "I rolled her in the clover"[6]. The terms were often used together ("rocking and rolling") to describe the motion of a ship at sea, for example as used in 1934 by the Boswell Sisters in their song "Rock and Roll"[7], which was featured in the 1934 film "Transatlantic Merry-Go-Round",[8][9] and in Buddy Jones' "Rockin' Rollin' Mama" (1939). Country singer Tommy Scott was referring to the motion of a railroad train in the 1951 "Rockin and Rollin'". [10].

 

[Robert Snow]

Thanks! This is exactly what I was getting at. These other replies show that this music is really moving into the church (Christ's Church). I just do not understand why people would go back to the way that they lived their lives before they were saved. I guess that they were not discipled right and that they decided (without thinking about it) that they did not want to change. God demands a changed life. The fruit that our lives yield is what shows that we are a Christian.

Hey! If you don't like CCM, don't listen to it; there are plenty of other forms of Christian music available. But, just because you don't like it doesn't mean God has anointed you to be the music police for everyone else. Give everyone else the freedom to decide for themselves.

"Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." Rom 14:4

 

[securityofficer2008]

"Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." Rom 14:4

John 7:24
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

I am aloud to judge righteous judgment. However, I am saying that this music is not to be used in church services. I am not saying that in someones life they cannot listen to it. That is up to them. There are alot of things that are done in the name of Christianity that are not Christian. Many things have been sown into the Scriptures instead of taking the Scriptures and using it literally and applying the principles from the Scriptures.

 

[securityofficer2008]

Uh...you rarely hear modern or contemporary music described as "Rock and Roll" anymore. The original 50s R&R has morphed and split into several genres. Also, interesting stuff on Wikipedia, shows the term was even used in a religious context. From HERE.

Try a credible source instead of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not credible because anyone from anywhere can put anything they want on Wikipedia. A 13 year old kid could have written some of the stuff that you find on Wikipedia. Try a credible source to prove your point.

 

[rbell]

I am aloud (sic) to judge righteous judgment. However, I am saying that this music is not to be used in church services. I am not saying that in someones life they cannot listen to it. That is up to them. There are alot of things that are done in the name of Christianity that are not Christian. Many things have been sown into the Scriptures instead of taking the Scriptures and using it literally and applying the principles from the Scriptures.

This is quite the problematic post. Any Scripture to back this up?

So...are you implying that this music is not of God? I would be careful. Jesus was very harsh on the folks that referred to works He did as the devil's work. Hint: the word He used started with a "B," and ended with "lasphemy." I'm hesitant to get into that realm. I'm not saying you are doing that...but that's something Christ was pretty strong about.

And, we keep coming back to: exactly what music is it that cannot be used in church services? Is it a no-no if there are drums at all? How about a guitar? Electric bass? What if the tempo is over 86? How about 3/4 time? 6/8? 5/4? What you call "contemporary," I might call "traditional." And as I've said...what we now consider wonderful church music was once considered scandalous (i.e., polyphonic singing, or "4-part singing").

Should we carefully evaluate what we use in worship? Absolutely. But there's light years of difference between carefully evaluating and praying over music, and dismissing an entire genre (which is not even concretely definable).

Try a credible source instead of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not credible because anyone from anywhere can put anything they want on Wikipedia. A 13 year old kid could have written some of the stuff that you find on Wikipedia. Try a credible source to prove your point.

I'm with you that wiki can be quite unreliable. But folks who condemn modern music outright are notorious for playing loose with the "evidence." (most of us here can quote the "missionary back from Africa hearing the drums, freaking out, and claiming they used drums to conjure up demons" story...)

I grew up being told of the evils of the "rock beat." I went to several seminars by folks such as Bill Gothard. Looking back, I now realize the scope of the urban legends passed off as fact. Instead of teaching me to evaluate the text, theology, etc., of the music, they taught me for a while to condemn things God was using...doing so with a cup of pharasaism, two teaspoons of bad science, a dash of outright lies, a cup of urban legends, and 8 oz. of ignorance of music. Thankfully, I've learned to evaluate...but from a perspective that is much more accurate.

 

[matt wade]

There are alot of things that are done in the name of Christianity that are not Christian. Many things have been sown into the Scriptures instead of taking the Scriptures and using it literally and applying the principles from the Scriptures.

On this we agree. You are showing a great an example of "things that are done in the name of Christianity that are not Christian". This bashing of CCM is "not Christian".

 

[securityofficer2008]

This is quite the problematic post. Any Scripture to back this up?

So...are you implying that this music is not of God? I would be careful. Jesus was very harsh on the folks that referred to works He did as the devil's work. Hint: the word He used started with a "B," and ended with "lasphemy." I'm hesitant to get into that realm. I'm not saying you are doing that...but that's something Christ was pretty strong about.

And, we keep coming back to: exactly what music is it that cannot be used in church services? Is it a no-no if there are drums at all? How about a guitar? Electric bass? What if the tempo is over 86? How about 3/4 time? 6/8? 5/4? What you call "contemporary," I might call "traditional." And as I've said...what we now consider wonderful church music was once considered scandalous (i.e., polyphonic singing, or "4-part singing").

Should we carefully evaluate what we use in worship? Absolutely. But there's light years of difference between carefully evaluating and praying over music, and dismissing an entire genre (which is not even concretely definable).



I'm with you that wiki can be quite unreliable. But folks who condemn modern music outright are notorious for playing loose with the "evidence." (most of us here can quote the "missionary back from Africa hearing the drums, freaking out, and claiming they used drums to conjure up demons" story...)

I grew up being told of the evils of the "rock beat." I went to several seminars by folks such as Bill Gothard. Looking back, I now realize the scope of the urban legends passed off as fact. Instead of teaching me to evaluate the text, theology, etc., of the music, they taught me for a while to condemn things God was using...doing so with a cup of pharasaism, two teaspoons of bad science, a dash of outright lies, a cup of urban legends, and 8 oz. of ignorance of music. Thankfully, I've learned to evaluate...but from a perspective that is much more accurate.

Music is of God. However, did God create (directly) Rock, Hip Hop, R&B, Rap, Country, Classical, etc? Did He design this genre of music to be used to worship Him or did man design it? No, man did (God gave us a free will to choose, but choosing wrong is still wrong). Man came up with Rock, Hip Hop, R&B, etc. Did God create music? Yes, He did. There is the choir of angels singing in heaven. Do I think that they are singing classical music, rock, rap, country to Him? No, they are singing "Worthy is the Lamb" from Revelation 5. Do you believe that God is listening to His angels singing it in a form of rock, country, classical, hip hop, pop, etc.?

Also, I am not speaking blasphemy. What I was saying was that there are many beliefs about God, but not all of them are right (i.e. mormonism vs. Orthodox Christianity just to name one). Mormonism says that it does many things in the name of God, but is it of God? No, to say so would go against the Scriptures. Again, many things are done in the name Christianity but they are not all of Christ. Therefore, all things that claim to be Christian are not necessarily Christian. Hence, some music might call itself Christian, but it is not Christian.

 

[securityofficer2008]

On this we agree. You are showing a great an example of "things that are done in the name of Christianity that are not Christian". This bashing of CCM is "not Christian".

I am not saying that music that is contemporary is evil. However, using rock music in a church service cannot be glorifying to God.

I can turn right around and say that the bashing of my beliefs is "not Christian" too. Some of you have said that hymns are so old that they have lost their pull in the church services. How's that for bashing my beliefs? Some people have said that CCM is going to be in Heaven and that David has a rock band in Heaven. How's that for blasphemy? That is not Christian. You do not comment on that being "not Christian" but you attack me for bashing CCM by saying that what I say is not Christian.

 

[matt wade]

I am not saying that music that is contemporary is evil. However, using rock music in a church service cannot be glorifying to God.

I can turn right around and say that the bashing of my beliefs is "not Christian" too. Some of you have said that hymns are so old that they have lost their pull in the church services. How's that for bashing my beliefs? Some people have said that CCM is going to be in Heaven and that David has a rock band in Heaven. How's that for blasphemy? That is not Christian. You do not comment on that being "not Christian" but you attack me for bashing CCM by saying that what I say is not Christian.

Anyone that said hymns are so old they have lost their pull is saying something "not Christian". I love the old hymns and they pull any my heart more than most other Christian music. I'm not a fan of the more "modern" music in a church service, but I also understand that it's a personal preference thing only.

As to what music will be in Heaven, I don't think any of us knows. We'll just have to wait and see. I can tell you that all of us will be happy with the choice of music .

 

[securityofficer2008]

Anyone that said hymns are so old they have lost their pull is saying something "not Christian". I love the old hymns and they pull any my heart more than most other Christian music. I'm not a fan of the more "modern" music in a church service, but I also understand that it's a personal preference thing only.

As to what music will be in Heaven, I don't think any of us knows. We'll just have to wait and see. I can tell you that all of us will be happy with the choice of music .

I can see where you say that the right music is a matter of preference only in your personal life. I do not think that you can say that God is pleased with it in the church. I am not going to fight the battle of what you listen to in the your personal life. All I am saying is that God is not pleased with rock and other styles using Christian lyrics to convey a message in the Church services across this world. This is my point!

 

[matt wade]

I can see where you say that the right music is a matter of preference only in your personal life. I do not think that you can say that God is pleased with it in the church. I am not going to fight the battle of what you listen to in the your personal life. All I am saying is that God is not pleased with rock and other styles using Christian lyrics to convey a message in the Church services across this world. This is my point!

I believe that God is pleased with any worship that is geniune and comes from our heart. God would be pleased if I banged two garbage can lids together, as long as I was doing it in worship of him.

 

[webdog]

I can see where you say that the right music is a matter of preference only in your personal life. I do not think that you can say that God is pleased with it in the church. I am not going to fight the battle of what you listen to in the your personal life. All I am saying is that God is not pleased with rock and other styles using Christian lyrics to convey a message in the Church services across this world. This is my point!

Music is music...sounds put together. Music in itself is amoral. Like everything else, it is what one DOES with something that makes it immoral. Amazing Grace played to a heavy drum beat and grinding guitars is still Amazing Grace.

 

[securityofficer2008]

I believe that God is pleased with any worship that is geniune and comes from our heart. God would be pleased if I banged two garbage can lids together, as long as I was doing it in worship of him.

At the same time though, God is not the author of confusion. Therefore it must be done in a way that pleases Him. It think that somebody that saw you beating two garbage can lids together would be a little confused.

 

[securityofficer2008]

Music is music...sounds put together. Music in itself is amoral. Like everything else, it is what one DOES with something that makes it immoral. Amazing Grace played to a heavy drum beat and grinding guitars is still Amazing Grace.

No...Amazing Grace played to a heavy metal drum beat and grinding guitars would be Amazing Disgrace. Music in itself is amoral, however when you play it like a style of the world (rock, rap, country, r&b, etc) it is immoral.

And another thing....We are created in the image of God and we have preferences in the styles of music that we like. Therefore, don't you think that God has a preference in the style of music that he likes. Remember, He is the "same yesterday, today, and forever." So if God still has the same preference in music, don't you think that rock music is out of the question for what God likes (remember that rock music was brought about in the 20th century).

 

[sag38]

Security Officer who are you to declare what music is pleasing to God and what music isn't? You are intejecting your own opinions and preferences into the debate and trying to pass them off with a holier than thou kind of attitude. By the way I've heard some pretty good music using garbage cans and other unorthadox things.

 

[matt wade]

At the same time though, God is not the author of confusion. Therefore it must be done in a way that pleases Him. It think that somebody that saw you beating two garbage can lids together would be a little confused.

An unsaved person would be confused as to why we dunk someone under the water and baptize them. Let's stop that now! An unsaved person would be confused that we tithe. Let's stop that now! An unsaved person would be confused that I believe God created the earth in a literal week. I should stop believing and telling people that. An unsaved person would be confused that Jesus Christ came to this earth and died for us. Should He have done it?

Jesus Christ Himself left so many people in a state of confusion we can't even count them. Most of the religious leaders of the time were completely confused as to His purpose. Why would He allow the confusion?

Just because you or someone else is confused, doesn't mean that I am not worshiping God. You confuse the heck out of me, and I'm not holding that against you! :laugh:

 

[securityofficer2008]

Security Officer who are you to declare what music is pleasing to God and what music isn't? You are intejecting your own opinions and preferences into the debate and trying to pass them off with a holier than thou kind of attitude. By the way I've heard some pretty good music using garbage cans and other unorthadox things.

I do not have a holy than thou kind of attitude. I am declaring that God is not pleased with Rock in the church services. This is not my opinion, it comes from the principles found in the Scriptures. Who are you to declare that God is pleased with the use of unorthadox things? Show me Bible to prove that one.