Why Calvinists and Arminianists are both wrong

[Alive in Christ]

"Why Calvinists and Arminianists are both wrong

Actually, I think it would be much more accurate say...

"Why Calvinists and Arminianists are both correct." :thumbs:


:godisgood:

 

[Rippon]

By the way, in his later years Spurgeon drifted away from Calvinism to what I'd say was that middle ground between the two factions.

I think it's fair to say that you have read very little of Spurgeon's works. The ones making that claim about Spurgeon simply haven't a clue about the man. It's as silly as saying George Whitefield wasn't really a Calvinist.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I would agree that Calvinism and Arminianism are both logically consistent. Even so I reject both because I am convinced that God's ways cannot always be explained by human logic. I believe that Calvinism and Arminianism are human attempts to logically explain what God has not chosen to completely reveal. For that reason I hold that Calvinism and Arminianism are both in error. Since some questions are simply unanswerable, it is better to leave those questions with God rather than attempt to formulate an answer that conforms to human logic but in the end produces error.

Excellent !!!!!

 

[Jerome]

"There has long been a great doctrinal discussion between the Calvinists and the Arminians upon many important points. I am myself persuaded that the Calvinist alone is right upon some points, and the Arminian alone is right upon others. There is a great deal of truth in the positive side of both systems, and a great deal of error in the negative side of both." ---Charles Spurgeon

 

[Jerome]

"Have you never seen the hard work that some brethren have to shape a Scripture to their mind? One text is not Calvinistic, it looks rather like Arminianism: of course it cannot be so, and therefore they twist and tug to get it right. As for our Arminian brethren, it is wonderful to see how they hammer away at the ninth of Romans: steam-hammers and screw-jacks are nothing to their appliances for getting rid of election from that chapter. We have all been guilty of racking Scripture more or less, and it will be well to have done with the evil for ever. We had better far be inconsistent with ourselves than with the inspired word. I have been called an Arminian Calvinist or a Calvinistic Arminian, and I am quite content so long as I can keep close to my Bible. I desire to preach what I find in this Book, whether I find it in anybody else's book or not;" ---Charles Spurgeon

 

[historyb]

Ah, the quote game to try to prove CH Spurgeon wasn't a Calvinist. Well two can play that game:

I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it.

- CH Spurgeon

Speaking of Arminians, Whitfield said, “We are all born Arminians.” It is grace that
turns us into Calvinists, grace that makes Christians of us, grace that makes us free,
and makes us know our standing in Christ Jesus.

- CH Spurgeon

The prince of preachers never went away from the doctrines of grace, because they are Biblical

I believe nothing merely because Calvin taught it, but because I have found his
teaching in the Word of God.

- Spurgeon

 

[Jerome]

"perhaps Calvin is made the standard, and what business has any man to think a single thought beyond Calvin? Blessed be God, we have gone a little beyond that; and we can say, "Increase our faith." With all our admiration for these great standard divines, we are not prepared to shut up ourselves in their little iron cages; but we say, "Open the door and let me fly—let me still feel that I am at liberty. Increase my faith, and help me to believe a little more."" ---Charles Spurgeon

 

[historyb]

They are all Calvinists there, every soul of them. They may have been Arminians on earth; thousands and millions of them were; but they are not after they get there, for here is their song, “Salvation unto our God, which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”

- CH Spurgeon

Dude, I know what your trying to do and it ain't going to work

 

[Gup20]

2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


At what point do we stop exhalting the men (Calvin, Arminious, etc) and start going to the Word and the Word alone.

Instead of posting a quote battle of Spurgeon why not quote scripture you think corroborates your point of view?

This is why I believe Calvinism and Arminianism are both humanistic persuits.

 

[historyb]

I disagree I learned Calvinism from Scripture and that is were it comes from, pure Scripture. Armininsm was a response that didn't square with Scripture

 

[webdog]

I disagree I learned Calvinism from Scripture and that is were it comes from, pure Scripture. Armininsm was a response that didn't square with Scripture

How presumptuous and arrogant to claim this. Scripture taken from context results in calvinism. I rejected calvinism (I was one) due in part to Scripture and the blatantly clear contradictions found therein.

 

[historyb]

Than I am, because I rejected the other belief which leads to RCC and away from Christ. Calvinism is directly from the Bible, the other view is directly from man.

 

[webdog]

Than I am, because I rejected the other belief which leads to RCC and away from Christ. Calvinism is directly from the Bible, the other view is directly from man.

Hogwash. RCC is one branch of arminianism, but the non-cal position doesn't lead to RCC by default. Calvinism is directly from man, hence the name. The biblical view is neither arminianism nor calvinism.

 

[historyb]

Wrong, Calvinism is directly from Scripture and arminism lead me to the RCC so don't presume to tell me something you don't know.

 

[webdog]

Wrong, Calvinism is directly from Scripture and arminism lead me to the RCC so don't presume to tell me something you don't know.

I think it's pretty obvious where the lack of knowledge is.

 

[historyb]

Than why keep it up if you have no know;edge, it is very clear you don't. [offensive language edited], a smart man knows the Bible contains all the doctrines of grace.

 

[Gup20]

I disagree I learned Calvinism from Scripture and that is were it comes from, pure Scripture. Armininsm was a response that didn't square with Scripture

I don't see either of them mentioned in scripture.

Additionally, you aren't arguing scripture, you are quoting Spurgeon in order to defend Calvin.

 

[historyb]

When I first came here I outlined where all the doctrines of grace are from Scripture.

 

[Pastor Larry]

You are right that neither of them said those exact words.

I know. So you were wrong.

They are too smart to say it that way

Either that, or because they don't want to lie and say something that they don't believe.

I am not smart enough to come up with that many words to say "that it makes no difference whether or not someone believes" but RC is. Maybe that is how he gets away with it: most of us end up scratching our heads wondering what exactly he just said. If you can't understand it you can't argue with it.

I understand it fine. I think "most of us" do.

You can slice it any way you like, but these proponents teach that God chose individuals to salvation before the world was created thus making it impossible for faith to be a requirement for election.

Of course. That is what the Bible teaches. That is not what you accused them of believing. You said they taught that it makes no difference whether they believe or not. But the truth is that both Sproul and MacARthur think it does make a difference.

Here you say that it is impossible for faith to be a requirement for election. That is what the bible says. That is not saying that faith is not a requirement for salvation. Election and salvation are not the same thing.

Since they define election to mean that God "positively intervenes in their lives to work regeneration and faith", faith is not the foundation for salvation, but election is.

I don't konw how you are using "foundation" here, but I would say that God is foundation of salvation. It is all about him and because of him, through grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone. That is Calvinism.

 

[Pastor Larry]

But I would rather that you posted scripture to facilitate your opinions,

Oi wasn't addressing scripture. I was addressing a misrepresentation that someone made.

Like friendofSpurgeon above, my perception is you are caught up in a humanist trapping.

Your perception is clearly wrong. Most of my 20,000 posts have probably been on this topic, and I have been among the few rigidly insisting that we talk about Scripture.