EIT is a Sin Against Mankind....

[righteousdude2]

.....there, I said it! and I don't feel bad for having said it. The truth is, I needed to make it clear that I do not condone the torture of our captured enemies. However, I condemn allowing the media inside the place where we hold these thugs, and sharing how we gather information that may prevent another 9/11.

My past posts, in regard to EIT and Abortion, were to shed light on the hypocrisy of this President when it comes to protecting the rights of a few hundred thugs, who hate us enough to die trying to kill us. That is a scary proposition, and it is a proposition that we don't face with the unborn child while they are comfortably nestled in their mother's womb.

My past two posts were to meant expose the hypocrisy of this administration as well as the hypocrisy of a lot of Americans when it comes to what American moral crime against mankind should we be most concerned about as we examine the reasons others in this world hate America.

I put forth the practice of abortion, partial birth [the details of how it is done is shown here:http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit], and stem cell research. It has been proved that the very act of abortion, and the act of partial birth abortion not only ends the life of an unborn child, but it brings pain and suffering to the child/fetus at the moment it is done. This can be viewed not only as "murder" but as a form of torture [no matter how brief it may be].

Thus, if we really cared as a nation of people who desire to return this nation to its moral high ground, than my past posts are advocating that the POTUSA, his administration, the Congress and Senate, the ACLU, and more importantly, churches of all faiths and creeds NEED to place their full and immediate emphasis upon the act of abortion, because it has made us the largest nation on earth to financially fund the practice of abortion world wide. In a way, we have become the nation that murders babies.

I don't think there are that many people on this planet who care whether or not the thugs in Gitmo are released or not. However, I do believe that more of mankind care about the murder of innocent children tucked safely away in their mother's womb.

Sure we need to stop the EIT of captured detainees, and in doing so, we need to find a better way to get information from them in a manner that causes less physical, mental, and emotional trauma. I'm not sure just what we can do to humanely extract information needed for national security, but, whatever we do, the practice needs to be sheltered in a way that keeps the inner-workings of our detention centers out of the investigative light of the media.

I believe that war is a terrible thing, and because of the terrible things that humans do in war, the less the people know, the better. A war fought under the scrutiny of a nations non-combatants will be a war that is lost before it begins. The need for political correctness on the front lines does not belong in war....all that matters to the soldier in the middle of a fire-fight, with death waiting in the shadows, all that matters is doing what it takes it takes to put the enemy down before they put you down. This part of war needs to be kept private because it is an immensely personal, emotionally charged moment in the life of the warrior.

I'm not advocating for wars to be fought without some form of accountability. That is where our Legislative side of government comes in. But, in the heat of the battle, a soldier must be free and personally empowered to carryout the mission they were sent on. They must be trusted to fight as each unique situation dictates.

With that said....I pray that my brothers and sisters on this forum clearly see that I'm in no way supporting or advocating torture. However, I am clearly supporting the right of our military to take the war to enemy on the same ground as the enemy brings the war to us.

There are NO style points [in war] for the winner, or the loser. There can be only one victor, and public opinion should never be allowed to sway or dictate how the war is to be fought. In a way, public opinion, Presidential opinion polls, and war protesters could all be blamed for the loss of life and the loss of the war in Viet Nam.

I sincerely believe that America and needs to leave Gitmo to the Department of Defense. If there is a battle for life that we need to be involved in, that battle is for the life's of unborn childrem...Americans need to turn their collective hearts, minds, and efforts toward the clinics and hospitals where the true crimes against humanity are taking place. We need to STOP the killing of million's (1.3 million to be exact) of innocent babies each year. We need to put pressure on the President and Legistlature to recall the funds that support world-wide abortion clinics funded by American tax dollars.

The true battlefield and the fight for the return to moral high ground is not at Gitmo; it is in every medical clinic and hospital where the life of innocent lives are being literally "sucked out" of their mothers protective womb. The screams you hear are not from the voices of a few hundred thugs in Gitmo; no, no, no! The screams we need to turn our attention to is the the scream of unborn fetuses crying out for the right to live every 26 seconds. And their voices grow louder with each passing abortion.

If I could vote on this issue, I'd vote to end the abrupt, painful end of life felt be each fetus every 26 seconds [per statistics from: http://www.all.org/article.php?id=10123].

I couldn't find any statistics on EIT's on terrorist thugs, but, if I had to venture a guess it might be for several EIT events each day in Gitmo.

Shalom, with hope that Americans get their head out of the Iraqi sand box, and move as a nation of believers who want life for every unborn child.

Pastor Paul:type:

 

[historyb]

What is EIT?

 

[canadyjd]

What is EIT?

Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.

peace to youraying:

 

[JustChristian]

.....there, I said it! and I don't feel bad for having said it. The truth is, I needed to make it clear that I do not condone the torture of our captured enemies. However, I condemn allowing the media inside the place where we hold these thugs, and sharing how we gather information that may prevent another 9/11.

My past posts, in regard to EIT and Abortion, were to shed light on the hypocrisy of this President when it comes to protecting the rights of a few hundred thugs, who hate us enough to die trying to kill us. That is a scary proposition, and it is a proposition that we don't face with the unborn child while they are comfortably nestled in their mother's womb.

My past two posts were to meant expose the hypocrisy of this administration as well as the hypocrisy of a lot of Americans when it comes to what American moral crime against mankind should we be most concerned about as we examine the reasons others in this world hate America.

I put forth the practice of abortion, partial birth [the details of how it is done is shown here:http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit], and stem cell research. It has been proved that the very act of abortion, and the act of partial birth abortion not only ends the life of an unborn child, but it brings pain and suffering to the child/fetus at the moment it is done. This can be viewed not only as "murder" but as a form of torture [no matter how brief it may be].

Thus, if we really cared as a nation of people who desire to return this nation to its moral high ground, than my past posts are advocating that the POTUSA, his administration, the Congress and Senate, the ACLU, and more importantly, churches of all faiths and creeds NEED to place their full and immediate emphasis upon the act of abortion, because it has made us the largest nation on earth to financially fund the practice of abortion world wide. In a way, we have become the nation that murders babies.

I don't think there are that many people on this planet who care whether or not the thugs in Gitmo are released or not. However, I do believe that more of mankind care about the murder of innocent children tucked safely away in their mother's womb.

Sure we need to stop the EIT of captured detainees, and in doing so, we need to find a better way to get information from them in a manner that causes less physical, mental, and emotional trauma. I'm not sure just what we can do to humanely extract information needed for national security, but, whatever we do, the practice needs to be sheltered in a way that keeps the inner-workings of our detention centers out of the investigative light of the media.

I believe that war is a terrible thing, and because of the terrible things that humans do in war, the less the people know, the better. A war fought under the scrutiny of a nations non-combatants will be a war that is lost before it begins. The need for political correctness on the front lines does not belong in war....all that matters to the soldier in the middle of a fire-fight, with death waiting in the shadows, all that matters is doing what it takes it takes to put the enemy down before they put you down. This part of war needs to be kept private because it is an immensely personal, emotionally charged moment in the life of the warrior.

I'm not advocating for wars to be fought without some form of accountability. That is where our Legislative side of government comes in. But, in the heat of the battle, a soldier must be free and personally empowered to carryout the mission they were sent on. They must be trusted to fight as each unique situation dictates.

With that said....I pray that my brothers and sisters on this forum clearly see that I'm in no way supporting or advocating torture. However, I am clearly supporting the right of our military to take the war to enemy on the same ground as the enemy brings the war to us.

There are NO style points [in war] for the winner, or the loser. There can be only one victor, and public opinion should never be allowed to sway or dictate how the war is to be fought. In a way, public opinion, Presidential opinion polls, and war protesters could all be blamed for the loss of life and the loss of the war in Viet Nam.

I sincerely believe that America and needs to leave Gitmo to the Department of Defense. If there is a battle for life that we need to be involved in, that battle is for the life's of unborn childrem...Americans need to turn their collective hearts, minds, and efforts toward the clinics and hospitals where the true crimes against humanity are taking place. We need to STOP the killing of million's (1.3 million to be exact) of innocent babies each year. We need to put pressure on the President and Legistlature to recall the funds that support world-wide abortion clinics funded by American tax dollars.

The true battlefield and the fight for the return to moral high ground is not at Gitmo; it is in every medical clinic and hospital where the life of innocent lives are being literally "sucked out" of their mothers protective womb. The screams you hear are not from the voices of a few hundred thugs in Gitmo; no, no, no! The screams we need to turn our attention to is the the scream of unborn fetuses crying out for the right to live every 26 seconds. And their voices grow louder with each passing abortion.

If I could vote on this issue, I'd vote to end the abrupt, painful end of life felt be each fetus every 26 seconds [per statistics from: http://www.all.org/article.php?id=10123].

I couldn't find any statistics on EIT's on terrorist thugs, but, if I had to venture a guess it might be for several EIT events each day in Gitmo.

Shalom, with hope that Americans get their head out of the Iraqi sand box, and move as a nation of believers who want life for every unborn child.

Pastor Paul:type:

So you're saying that if this were WW2 we should use the same tactics as the Nazi's? Perhaps we should conduct a holocaust to murder all Muslims as the Nazi's did to Jews. Is that your "Christian" proposal?

 

[abcgrad94]

Amen, Righteousdude! Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[righteousdude2]

Can't You Get Serious?

So you're saying that if this were WW2 we should use the same tactics as the Nazi's? Perhaps we should conduct a holocaust to murder all Muslims as the Nazi's did to Jews. Is that your "Christian" proposal?

Come on JC. I thought you were more intelligent than this? However, you are right on with the holocaust....we are committing that very act with each baby we kill.:tear:

Shalom,

Pastor Paul:type:

 

[canadyjd]

.....there, I said it! and I don't feel bad for having said it. The truth is, I needed to make it clear that I do not condone the torture of our captured enemies.... I believe that war is a terrible thing, and because of the terrible things that humans do in war, the less the people know, the better. A war fought under the scrutiny of a nations non-combatants will be a war that is lost before it begins....There are NO style points [in war] for the winner, or the loser....
I sincerely believe that America and needs to leave Gitmo to the Department of Defense....The true battlefield and the fight for the return to moral high ground is not at Gitmo; it is in every medical clinic and hospital where the life of innocent lives are being literally "sucked out" of their mothers protective womb....I couldn't find any statistics on EIT's on terrorist thugs, but, if I had to venture a guess it might be for several EIT events each day in Gitmo.....Shalom, with hope that Americans get their head out of the Iraqi sand box, and move as a nation of believers who want life for every unborn child.

Pastor Paul, I do understand what you are saying.

I am also torn. I love this country and want us to succeed. It is frustrating to see liberals in this country and around the world bad-mouthing the United States and our brave men and women who are shedding their blood to bring freedom to some and maintain freedom for others. There appears to be is no sense of graditude for what we have done as a nation.

But first and foremost, my commitment is to Christ and His cause in the world...and that does not necessarily stand side by side with the causes supported by the United States government.

That could not be more obvious than in the slaughter of the unborn in this country and around the world, to which American taxpayers are funding.

At some point, IMHO, we will be forced to chose between country and Christ.

We should prepare ourselves and those around us for the persecution that will follow, that we may endure it in a Christlike manner and be His witnesses despite the influence of the world.

From other things that you have written, I know that you already know and understand that. It just seems to be closer now than ever before, and perhaps that is part of our frustration. The way to delay the enevitable to maintain our freedoms and our way of life, as long as we can... but in the end, we know that such action is futile.

Come Lord Jesus

peace to youraying:

 

[OldRegular]

Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.

peace to youraying:

Which is not torture!

 

[OldRegular]

A good and well reasoned post Pastor Paul. However I do disagree that the EITs used at GTMO were a sin or torture.

Nevertheless as I tried to point out on another thread the hypocrisy of this president in condeming EIT, accusing bush of toryure, yet promoting the continued slaughter of unborn children would be beyond belief if it were not true. It is my opinion that those who cast a vote that supports the continuation of the American Holocaust are guilty also.

 

[JustChristian]

Come on JC. I thought you were more intelligent than this? However, you are right on with the holocaust....we are committing that very act with each baby we kill.:tear:

Shalom,

Pastor Paul:type:

This is what you said/

I'm not sure just what we can do to humanely extract information needed for national security, but, whatever we do, the practice needs to be sheltered in a way that keeps the inner-workings of our detention centers out of the investigative light of the media.

Why should the protector of freedom have to hide it's practices unless there's something to hide? I'm sick and tired of us having to hide the tyranny of the CIA around the world.

 

[blackbird]

During WW2---------there was a group of German prisoners who had surrendered to the Americans soon after June 6, '44

The German prisoners were excited that they were going to be "deported" to the United States via the same ships that American troopers sailed over on

One particular German unit found out that they were not going to sail to the US but rather was going to be dropped off in Great Britian

to which the German commander responded

"We will not board the British ships!"

WHY??

Because British ships did not have ice cream machines like the American ships did and because British ships did not hand out cigarettes like the American ships did

Krauts by the thousands would surrender to the Americans in any way, form or fashion----------why???? Because it would be a free passport to the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave"--------a "vacation" resort to wait out the remainder of the war

One particular German unit flat out refused to surrender to a British column that was passing by

The German unit commander sent a message to the British commander that said--------We will wait until we see the first American unit come up behind you and surrender to them but not to you!!!!

The British commander sent a message back---------that there happened to be a Russian unit comeing up right behind the British-----and that if they wanted to---------they(the Krauts) could surrender to them(the Ruskies) instead!!!!!!!!!!!!

The German commander left his command post walking toward the British line-----with his hands in the air and his Kraut fighters behind him---with their hands in the air

"Vee can not take chance of being caught by zee Vussians!!!!!"

If any German prisoner started giving the American captors a "bad time"------they(the Americans) would threaten to turn them over to the Russians

 

[BigBossman]

If any German prisoner started giving the American captors a "bad time"------they(the Americans) would threaten to turn them over to the Russians

Is there another common enemy that the Islamics have that we could turn them over to? Perhaps one that would about be as civil as the Taliban? That way we wouldn't be accused of "torturing" our enemy combatants.

 

[LadyEagle]

Is there another common enemy that the Islamics have that we could turn them over to? Perhaps one that would about be as civil as the Taliban? That way we wouldn't be accused of "torturing" our enemy combatants.

Yes, liberals.....:laugh:

 

[donnA]

So you're saying that if this were WW2 we should use the same tactics as the Nazi's? Perhaps we should conduct a holocaust to murder all Muslims as the Nazi's did to Jews. Is that your "Christian" proposal?

Thats not what he said.
You condone the holocaust of the unborn by voting for those who approve it.

 

[SeekingTruth]

So you're saying that if this were WW2 we should use the same tactics as the Nazi's? Perhaps we should conduct a holocaust to murder all Muslims as the Nazi's did to Jews. Is that your "Christian" proposal?

JC, you know full well that righteousdude said no such thing. In no part of his post did he even hint that we, as a nation, should commit such heinous acts. Why do you persist in twisting the words of those who consistently put life above other things? I agree with donnA. You who support those who support abortion are supporting the holocaust of babies. Nearly 50 million babies have been sacrificed on the altar of human convenience since Roe v. Wade.:tear:

 

[OldRegular]

I'm sick and tired of us having to hide the tyranny of the CIA around the world.

Well JC you probably won't have to worry any longer. obama has killed the CIA just as the Church Commission did some years ago. Hold your breath until the next attack. It won't be that long with a wimp for a president.

 

[rbell]

Why should the protector of freedom have to hide it's practices unless there's something to hide? I'm sick and tired of us having to hide the tyranny of the CIA around the world.

Yes...perhaps we should post the schematics of our defense facilities online for public viewing. Then we could post the names & phone numbers of all intelligence operatives, and their families, online, in case Mahmoud el-Wahabi Cameljockey wants to stop by for tea and crumpets. In addition...why not publicize where our nukes are, and how to get to them...in case any toweltops wanna visit with their battery-powered belts?

Then, just for fun, we could share everything we've learned with the New York Times, so they could tell our secrets...because, of course, all secrecy is bad.



Please. Your pontifications are dangerous. We don't follow them because if we did, we would be the United Caliphate of the New World.

 

[righteousdude2]

National Security Requires that we.....

This is what you said/

I'm not sure just what we can do to humanely extract information needed for national security, but, whatever we do, the practice needs to be sheltered in a way that keeps the inner-workings of our detention centers out of the investigative light of the media.

Why should the protector of freedom have to hide it's practices unless there's something to hide? I'm sick and tired of us having to hide the tyranny of the CIA around the world.

....keep some things out of the reach of the general public. That is a wise decision, because once the public is brought on board [given knowledge] they begin to interject their opinion(s). The old saying that "too many cooks in the kitchen RUINS the soup," rings true here.

Keeping some things from the general public is in the best interest of National security, really...we don't need a million or more, Sunday morning quarterbacks. The problem with Gitmo is one example of something that was apparently going along just fine until the media took the story and made it into front page fodder.

Sorry JC, but, on this one, you are off-base. The media's got to get out of the kitchen. They are the tool being manipulated by the enemy. People believe everything the media says, without questions. And if the media says Gitmo is torturing non-military combatants, immediate social discourse between the pro-torture, and anti-torture folks takes over the front page, and we lose focus of the war.

The media, if used correctly, can become the smoke and mirrors, that takes the nation down the wrong road, splitting its solidarity, and giving birth to numerous splinter groups with different views. And when there are numerous views, the nation loses its focus, and chaos sets in. This is exactly what we have going on right now in regard to the torture of terrorist thugs.

In California the media was behind the cessation of the death penalty three years ago. They started reporting on how inhumane the lethal injection was, because it supposedly caused pain and suffering. Thus, we have hundreds of murders waiting to die while the courts fight it out, and the state spends millions of dollars to correct problems in the system. Problems made up by the ACLU and others.

This may sound non-Christian, but, I don't care if the lethal injection causes the murderer to suffer a little pain. After all, they are there because they caused emotional, mental and physical pain right before they took their life. I say, no mercy. An eye for an eye......so be it!

This is the problem with the media. There are some things that are best left covered up. So what if a terrorist thug suffers a little emotional anguish. How much emotional anguish have they caused in the name of Allah? As I've said before, these thugs are still alive and well; which is something we can't say for the innocent life of the people they killed in the name of Allah.

As believers, we must forgive the terrorists for 9/11, but, NONE of us should ever forget those 3,000 people who died in the Twin Towers. We should never forget the desperation felt by those who jumped from a hundred floors up to escape the horrible pain from the fingers of the molting hot flames that cornered them and forced them to jump or be devoured by 1,700 degree flames. Surely the decision to jump to their death seemed less painful than being engulfed by those flames on that early September morning.

If keeping the public in the dark on some issues are tyranny in your eyes, than let it be. It is the price we must pay to battle the enemy on the same-playing-field they brought us this war on.

If the enemy wants to fight a war with no rules, than so be it. There is nothing in our Constitution that mandates that we fight with honor. And who's to say what honor is anyways. America needs to fight the fight as it is, if it expects to win. When one fighter decides to fight less than honorably, the other must adapt to that style of fight, or face defeat.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul:type:

 

[JustChristian]

Which is not torture!

If it's not torture why did the US prosecute enemy solders for performing it during WW2?

 

[LadyEagle]

If it's not torture why did the US prosecute enemy solders for performing it during WW2?

Because we won. Don't worry, though, we'll never have to worry about winning again. That should make Obama supporters very happy.

Don't forget, of course, that when the next terrorist attack comes, the terrorists won't be asking whether or not their victims are liberals who were against EITs.