2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 Question regarding the Rapture

[TaliOrlando]

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8

7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

_________________________________________________________________

Hello and God Bless :wavey:

It has been a while since I have passed by and want to say hi to everyone.

I started my youtube ministry at http://www.taliforgod.com and stuff....

Anynow, in the verses above in Thessalonians, we see in verse 7 that the one who currently holds back the lawless man, will be taken away before he is revealed.

Who is the one who holds this lawless man?

1) Holy Spirit

2) Body of Christ

3) I dont know

If you answered 1 & 2 does this not point to the rapture..... ?

If you answered number 3, what is this force which is currently holding back the antichrist?

:wavey:

 

[TaliOrlando]

:thumbsup:

I am raying: that someone can help!

 

[webdog]

Since the body of Christ is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the answer is both 1 and 2

 

[Tom Butler]

Careful here.

The verse does not say the restrainer is taken away. It says he is taken out of the way. One could make the case that the restrainer merely stops restraining.

If one holds that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, and thus leaves the earth with the Church at the rapture, then one must also hold that anyone saved on this earth afterward will have to be saved by another way than being born of the Spirit. Does anyone really want to take the position that there is more than one way to be saved?

 

[webdog]

Careful here.

The verse does not say the restrainer is taken away. It says he is taken out of the way. One could make the case that the restrainer merely stops restraining.

If one holds that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, and thus leaves the earth with the Church at the rapture, then one must also hold that anyone saved on this earth afterward will have to be saved by another way than being born of the Spirit. Does anyone really want to take the position that there is more than one way to be saved?

Does the Great Commission come with an end date? As long as believers are in this world, the Spirit will continue to work.

Also, the OT saints weren't indwelt with the Spirit...just like the GT saints won't be.

 

[historyb]

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8

7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

_________________________________________________________________

Hello and God Bless :wavey:

It has been a while since I have passed by and want to say hi to everyone.

I started my youtube ministry at http://www.taliforgod.com and stuff....

Anynow, in the verses above in Thessalonians, we see in verse 7 that the one who currently holds back the lawless man, will be taken away before he is revealed.

Who is the one who holds this lawless man?

1) Holy Spirit

2) Body of Christ

3) I dont know

If you answered 1 & 2 does this not point to the rapture..... ?

If you answered number 3, what is this force which is currently holding back the antichrist?

:wavey:

IMHO I would say number 3, The anti Christ was here in Nero.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Does the Great Commission come with an end date? As long as believers are in this world, the Spirit will continue to work.

Also, the OT saints weren't indwelt with the Spirit...just like the GT saints won't be.

Amen, Brother webdog -- Preach it! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8

7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

_________________________________________________________________

Hello and God Bless

It has been a while since I have passed by and want to say hi to everyone.

I started my youtube ministry at http://www.taliforgod.com and stuff....

Anynow, in the verses above in Thessalonians, we see in verse 7 that the one who currently holds back the lawless man, will be taken away before he is revealed.

Who is the one who holds this lawless man?

1) Holy Spirit

2) Body of Christ

3) I dont know

If you answered 1 & 2 does this not point to the rapture..... ?

If you answered number 3, what is this force which is currently holding back the antichrist?

1. The Holy Spirit holds back the "man of sin" KJV.
2. The text in vs 1-3 clearly points to the rapture of the church as taking place after the man-of sin event.
3. (God) The Holy Spirit restrains evil today. But that restraint is being removed.

:godisgood:

in Christ,

Bob

 

[webdog]

Nice to see you around here again, Bob.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Webdog: // Nice to see you around here again, Bob. //


Amen, Brother webdog -- Preach it! :thumbs:


Bob sez:
// 1. The Holy Spirit holds back the "man of sin" KJV.
2. The text in vs 1-3 clearly points to the rapture of the church as taking place after the man-of sin event.
3. (God) The Holy Spirit restrains evil today. But that restraint is being removed. //

Ed sez:
1. The Holy Spirit holds back the "man of sin" KJV.
2. The text in vs 1-3 clearly points to the rapture of the church as taking place BEFORE the man-of sin event.
3. (God) The Holy Spirit restrains evil today. But that restraint is being removed.

 

[Palatka51]

Ed sez:
1. The Holy Spirit holds back the "man of sin" KJV.
2. The text in vs 1-3 clearly points to the rapture of the church as taking place BEFORE the man-of sin event.
3. (God) The Holy Spirit restrains evil today. But that restraint is being removed.

Ahem!! Scripture please.

Just as Jesus gave permission for Judas to do what must be done for betrayal, so too will the Holy Spirit give permission to the Antichrist to be released.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ahem!! Scripture please.
...

Uh, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 maybe :wavey:

verse 1 says there are two things Paul is going to talk about:

A. the Second Coming of the Lord
B. the gathering of the saints by the Lord

Verse 2 says the Day of the Lord had not yet come in about AD 62 when Paul wrote 2 Thess.

Verse 3 says events come down in this order:
1. the falling away (KJV), the departure (pre KJV English version)
2. the revelation of the man of sin, man of lawlessness, etc.
3. the Day of the Lord


Comparing my two lists together:
1. the falling away (KJV), the departure (pre KJV English version)

B. the gathering of the saints by the Lord
​

2. the revelation of the man of sin

(no match)
​

3. the Day of the Lord

A. the Second Coming of the Lord
​

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Hello, Tali,

Ja, long since I too was active on BB --- have been busy on Afrikaans forums. Those are tough guys; I never though my people can be such unbelievers. Since Nationalism left us in the lurch, we seem to have lost faith in God as well.

Anyhow ....

Tali, there exists no such concept even in the Scriptures like a 'rapture'. Check many previous discussions on BB.

I believe 'currently', no one is holding back the lawless man -- he has gone completely haywire for quite some time already. There simply is NOTHING that might prevent Christ from returning today! "Like lightning" - suddenly, unexpected, and visibly from the east to the west. That's the 'old-time religion's belief and hope. The novelty of some 'rapture' is deceiving honest Christians. It is of no honour to Jesus Christ or His People.

 

[Tom Butler]

I believe 'currently', no one is holding back the lawless man -- he has gone completely haywire for quite some time already. There simply is NOTHING that might prevent Christ from returning today! "Like lightning" - suddenly, unexpected, and visibly from the east to the west. That's the 'old-time religion's belief and hope. The novelty of some 'rapture' is deceiving honest Christians. It is of no honour to Jesus Christ or His People.

It certainly seems so, doesn't it?

That the Holy Spirit is the restrainer is not supported by scripture; it is, however, a natural inference of dispensationalism. Even then, dispy-ism doesn't require the restrainer to be the HS. It's just that some scriptures, like this one, are filtered through dispy-ism. In other words, if you're a dispy, this is what this scripture means. Even though it's not required that the Holy Spirit leaves the earth at the "rapture."

I'm not a dispy, and I'm not arguing eschatology here. We're discussing the identity of the restrainer, and while it makes for a great discussion, we really don't know the answer.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Uh, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 maybe :wavey:

verse 1 says there are two things Paul is going to talk about:

A. the Second Coming of the Lord
B. the gathering of the saints by the Lord

Yes, and the natural reading of this verse is that these two are implied as happening together. There is nothing in this verse, nor in the rest of the chapter (nor in the rest of Scripture for that matter) that indicates these are separate events with some seven year gap in between. The passage indicates that both take place at the "Day of the Christ".

Verse 2 says the Day of the Lord had not yet come in about AD 62 when Paul wrote 2 Thess.

True.

Verse 3 says events come down in this order:
1. the falling away (KJV), the departure (pre KJV English version)
2. the revelation of the man of sin, man of lawlessness, etc.
3. the Day of the Lord

True again.

Comparing my two lists together:
1. the falling away (KJV), the departure (pre KJV English version)

B. the gathering of the saints by the Lord

Again, don't see anything anywhere in that passage that somehow authorizes one to identify the "departure" with the "gathering together of" the saints to Christ thereby splitting apart what Paul had joined together in verse 1 (other than pretrib eisogesis). The "falling away" (or "departure") could more appropriately be a reference to apostasy from the faith (not a physical departure from the earth), especially given that Paul in his other writings makes reference to a "falling away from the faith" that will occur in latter times:
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith..." (1 Timothy 4:1)

2. the revelation of the man of sin

(no match)​

3. the Day of the Lord

A. the Second Coming of the Lord​

Again the natural reading of the passage is that the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him" (v.1) both occur at the "Day of the Christ" (v.2) which itself will not occur unless the "falling away (from the faith) comes first and the man of sin (final Antichrist) is revealed" (v.3).​