'Government persecuting' jailed creation evangelist

[Revmitchell]

Of course, but not all parents are good parents. Some don't teach their kids right from wrong. Some abuse their kids. Some rape their kids. Some take drugs with their kids. Some neglect their kids. In such cases, society owes those kids protection. Parental rights are not absolute, and do not constitute ownership either.

They are absolute and the word ownership is a liberal tag word to demonize parental rights. Libbies want their own ownership of everyone elses children so as to effect change. Good luck with that. Playing politics with children is despicable.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Perhaps I would die and perhaps a bullet from my gun would return the favor but its my property until the day I die.

I read pieces of the trashy book.

If you support hillary or oprah I am not permitted to say what I think.

Oprah?!?? :laugh:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

They are absolute and the word ownership is a liberal tag word to demonize parental rights. Libbies want their own ownership of everyone elses children so as to effect change. Good luck with that. Playing politics with children is despicable.

Claiming ownership of other people, and permitting parental abuse and neglect under the guise of parental rights is despicable. Our children belong to themselves...they are entrusted to us to guide and direct to productive adulthood. If you think your parental rights are absolute, talk to parents who have had those rights legally terminated for various and valid reasons.

 

[pilgrim2009]

Oprah?!?? :laugh:

:tonofbricks:

 

[pilgrim2009]

Claiming ownership of other people, and permitting parental abuse and neglect under the guise of parental rights is despicable. Our children belong to themselves...they are entrusted to us to guide and direct to productive adulthood. If you think your parental rights are absolute, talk to parents who have had those rights legally terminated for various and valid reasons.

No you have it wrong.Children belong to their parents until they are old enough to leave as long as that child is not in danger of parental wacko`s.

Many children are taken away by social services a wicked branch of our government for no reason for the love of money and in some cases just because they can.

 

[Revmitchell]

Claiming ownership of other people, and permitting parental abuse and neglect under the guise of parental rights is despicable. Our children belong to themselves...they are entrusted to us to guide and direct to productive adulthood. If you think your parental rights are absolute, talk to parents who have had those rights legally terminated for various and valid reasons.

Now if you are going to use false arguments such as "permitting abuse" then your position is clear. God Bless

 

[pilgrim2009]

Now if you are going to use false arguments such as "permitting abuse" then your position is clear. God Bless

MP is very very clear.Makes me wonder if MP works for the Government?

Hummmm

 

[Johnv]

No you have it wrong.Children belong to their parents...

Uh, actually, Children belong to God, and are entrusted to us.

 

[pilgrim2009]

Uh, actually, Children belong to God, and are entrusted to us.

True and the Government should know it.

Here is some information on the evils in our government dealing with Parents and Children.




http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in Government/evils_in_government.htm

 

[Magnetic Poles]

OOOhhhh...the evil government is comin' to getcha! Katy, bar the door!

 

[Aaron]

On his supposed "degree". Hovind lists having a PhD from Patriot University. Patriot University is a diploma mill, identified by "Name It and Frame It" and "The Chronicle of Higher Education".

Since you will provide no citations or links, I did my own research. Yes, Patriot Univervisity is an unaccredited college operating in a wing of College Heights Baptist Church, and it has unusually low standards for issuing degrees, but it isn't a degree mill. One does have to do a modicum of work or demonstrate some life experience before a degree is conferred. It may be on the same level as Luther Hegg's journalism degree from the Kansas City Correspondence School of Jounalism, but it isn't fraudulent. A fraud would cite a fake degree from Harvard or Yale, or some other university. (Though Gates' and Obama's antics of late are no endorsement of Harvard).

On the fake leg bone, his Creation Museum displayed what is claimed to be a "thigh bone from the 13 foot man". Hovind's Creation Seminar Series also references it directly, in parts 1-3 and 6-7. He states in his series, "... this thigh bone here over my head which is from a human which would have been nearly 13 feet tall...". But it's actually a replica (which Hovind briefly mentions in part 2). What Hovind doesn't say is that it's a 2x replica model. Joe Taylor of Mt. Blanco Museum provided the replica to Hovind. It's actually 2:1 female skeleton replica, which is available for sale to the general public via catalog from the Mt. Blanco Museum for about $500.00. Also, the proportions are wrong of this were genuine. A 13-foot skeleton would actually have different proportions than simply doubling the proportions of a 5 or 6 foot human.

Dubious, to be sure, but I'd say that Hovind is more guilty of being too trusting and too eager to refute evolutionary garbage than anything else. Also, he never claimed the replica to be an the actual bone. He has always said it was a replica obtained from the Mt. Blanco Museum.

Rgarding Hovind's criminal history, it's readily documented and self evident in public records in Hovind vs Schneider (2002), Hovind vs Commissioner Internal Revenue (2002), US Tax Court (2006), US vs Kent and Jo Hovind (2006), Hovind vs IRS Commisioner (2007), and more.

I know one man personally who hasn't filed a return since 1985. He firmly believes he's in the right. He may be mistaken, but the man is not a fraud, and he doesn't hide it. His wife of 25 years and the mother of his nine children recently divorced him and brought up his nonpayment in court. Still no call from the IRS.

Anyway, though Hovind's credentials are dubious to say the least, it doesn't rise to the level of fraud.

 

[Johnv]

Since you will provide no citations or links, I did my own research. Yes, Patriot Univervisity is an unaccredited college operating in a wing of College Heights Baptist Church, and it has unusually low standards for issuing degrees, but it isn't a degree mill.

There's some debate on that, but for the sake of argument, PU became PBU several years ago, and has since offered a more legitimate cirriculum. Hovind got his degree prior to that, when it was still PU.

A fraud would cite a fake degree from Harvard or Yale, or some other university.

He is fraudulent when presenting his degree to be a Doctorate in Education instead of a doctorate in Christian Education. He is also fraudulent in his dissertation. That alone is reason to quanify him as having fake credentials.

Dubious, to be sure, but I'd say that Hovind is more guilty of being too trusting and too eager to refute evolutionary garbage than anything else.

I refuse to believe that there is such a shortage of people in the field of creation science, that one man must misrepresent his education. Further, I haven't even mentioned his claims in his series. There's abundant with misrepresentations, but that's better left for a different thread (this is about his criminal record and dishonesty).

Dubious is an easy way to say dishonest. Scripture calls such a person a liar, and in this case, he's an unrepentant one. This is not the kind of example that Christians should be using as source material for defense of creationism.

Also, he never claimed the replica to be an the actual bone.

He claims it is from a 13 foot man. It's actually a 2:1 replica from a normal height woman. Not once does he say it's a 2:1 replica.

I know one man personally who hasn't filed a return since 1985.

This isn't an issue of an individual believing he doesn't owe taxes. This is a case of falsely declaring bankruptcy, various tax-related charges, and making threats against federal officials, not to mention disregarding county zoning regulations in regards to his dinosaur adventure land park. It also involves refusing to list his ministry as a 501c3 orgaination (since it's not a church, it is required to file for tax exempt status).

However, in regards to his taxes, he attempted to file for bankruptcy on the claim that he wasn't a citizen of the US and did not earn income, afterwhich it was discovered that he lied on court documents about his possessions and income. BTW, Hovind was Hovind was first reported to the IRS by Rebekah Horton, who at the time was vp of Pensicola Christian College. His tax debt was found to be in the $500,000 range.

But wait, there's more. Hovind was also tried on 12 counts of willful failure to collect, account for, and pay Federal income and FICA taxes, 45 counts of falsifying documents to evade income reporting, and 1 count of obstruction.

Anyway, though Hovind's credentials are dubious to say the least, it doesn't rise to the level of fraud.

Passing off oneself as something s/he is not qualifies as fraud.

 

[pilgrim2009]

OOOhhhh...the evil government is comin' to getcha! Katy, bar the door!

Very possible.

 

[rbell]

I know one man personally who hasn't filed a return since 1985. He firmly believes he's in the right. He may be mistaken, but the man is not a fraud, and he doesn't hide it. His wife of 25 years and the mother of his nine children recently divorced him and brought up his nonpayment in court. Still no call from the IRS.

Anyway, though Hovind's credentials are dubious to say the least, it doesn't rise to the level of fraud.

The difference between your example and Hovind: Hovind did make efforts to hide his tracks.

That's not how we as Christians are allowed to do civil disobedience, if we feel led to disobey the authorities.

 

[rbell]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/evils_in_government.htm

This wacko site also claims our government manufactured the AIDS virus, that Al-Qaeda is actually a US government operation staffed by US employees, and that jet contrails are actually attempts to poison and sterilize the US people.

Are you sure you want to stick with sources such as this? And if so, forgive us if we all recognize that lends you zero credibility.

Pick some real sources that don't involve the authors having bad LSD trips.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

This wacko site also claims our government manufactured the AIDS virus, that Al-Qaeda is actually a US government operation staffed by US employees, and that jet contrails are actually attempts to poison and sterilize the US people.

Are you sure you want to stick with sources such as this? And if so, forgive us if we all recognize that lends you zero credibility.

Pick some real sources that don't involve the authors having bad LSD trips.

Haha :thumbsup:

Some folks have been unable to put together lucid thoughts since before Woodstock.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

While do what I have to do to make sure I pay my taxes, I don't regard tax evasion as a criminal offense.

"Give to Ceasar what is his" ...... even though "Ceasar" may be taking more than he is supposed to.

If you can find a way to ensure that "Ceasar" gets less, go for it.

I think that this is nothing more than a way for them to put him behind bars. Kind of like what happened with Al Capone. The government could find any evidence, so they put him away on tax evasion charges.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Al Capone was a criminal, but not because of tax evasion. I don't regard Hovind as a criminal.

You know I always saw that verse as being more about who's image we are made in than paying taxes. In other words give ceasar the coin back because his image is on it and give the entire man back to God because he's made in God's image.

 

[pilgrim2009]

This wacko site also claims our government manufactured the AIDS virus, that Al-Qaeda is actually a US government operation staffed by US employees, and that jet contrails are actually attempts to poison and sterilize the US people.

Are you sure you want to stick with sources such as this? And if so, forgive us if we all recognize that lends you zero credibility.

Pick some real sources that don't involve the authors having bad LSD trips.

For one thing you can`t prove that these things are not so.There have been people involved with our government that has come out to reveal this evil.This is one reason evil prevails because good men do nothing and good mens minds are closed that such could be possible.

Are you saying you can prove these things not so?

Are you saying these things are not possible?

Waiting for your proof.

 

[pilgrim2009]

Haha :thumbsup:

Some folks have been unable to put together lucid thoughts since before Woodstock.

MP waiting on your proof these things are not possible.


AIDS

"In my estimation, AIDS is a covert operation run amok that is bigger than any secret operation in US history".

Colonel Jack Kingston
retired Joint Chiefs of Staff
The Pentagon.

Also see:

http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=deceptions/plagues/aids/us-secret-aids-program.txt

 

[Revmitchell]

For one thing you can`t prove that these things are not so.There have been people involved with our government that has come out to reveal this evil.This is one reason evil prevails because good men do nothing and good mens minds are closed that such could be possible.

Are you saying you can prove these things not so?

Are you saying these things are not possible?

Waiting for your proof.

Somebody get this guy his tinfoil hat. It is also possible that a large meteor will hit and destroy NYC tomorrow, it is also possible that Obama will repent of his rebellion against God today and be saved. But coherent people look at the likelihood and understand reality. Arguing from the basis of what is possible is foolish and does nothing to lend to the credibility of the claim or the people making the claim.