I didn't completely state this. The probability of an identical twin getting depression is 80% if their twin has it.
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Why was Spurgeon depressed?
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
- Start date
I didn't completely state this. The probability of an identical twin getting depression is 80% if their twin has it.
Some of the more common factors involved in depression are:
* Family history. Genetics play an important part in depression. It can run in families for generations.
* Trauma and stress. Things like financial problems, the breakup of a relationship, or the death of a loved one can bring on depression. You can become depressed after changes in your life, like starting a new job, graduating from school, or getting married.
* Pessimistic personality. People who have low self-esteem and a negative outlook are at higher risk of becoming depressed. These traits may actually be caused by low-level depression (called dysthymia).
* Physical conditions. Serious medical conditions like heart disease, cancer, and HIV can contribute to depression, partly because of the physical weakness and stress they bring on. Depression can make medical conditions worse, since it weakens the immune system and can make pain harder to bear. In some cases, depression can be caused by medications used to treat medical conditions.
* Other psychological disorders. Anxiety disorders, eating disorders, schizophrenia, and (especially) substance abuse often appear along with depression.
More Here
* Family history. Genetics play an important part in depression. It can run in families for generations.
* Trauma and stress. Things like financial problems, the breakup of a relationship, or the death of a loved one can bring on depression. You can become depressed after changes in your life, like starting a new job, graduating from school, or getting married.
* Pessimistic personality. People who have low self-esteem and a negative outlook are at higher risk of becoming depressed. These traits may actually be caused by low-level depression (called dysthymia).
* Physical conditions. Serious medical conditions like heart disease, cancer, and HIV can contribute to depression, partly because of the physical weakness and stress they bring on. Depression can make medical conditions worse, since it weakens the immune system and can make pain harder to bear. In some cases, depression can be caused by medications used to treat medical conditions.
* Other psychological disorders. Anxiety disorders, eating disorders, schizophrenia, and (especially) substance abuse often appear along with depression.
More Here
What are the main factors that cause depression?
There are a number of factors that may increase the chance of depression, including the following:
* Abuse. Past physical, sexual, or emotional abuse can cause depression later in life.
* Certain medications. For example, some drugs used to treat high blood pressure, such as beta-blockers or reserpine, can increase your risk of depression.
* Conflict. Depression may result from personal conflicts or disputes with family members or friends.
* Death or a loss. Sadness or grief from the death or loss of a loved one, though natural, can also increase the risk of depression.
* Genetics. A family history of depression may increase the risk. It’s thought that depression is passed genetically from one generation to the next. The exact way this happens, though, is not known.
* Major events. Even good events such as starting a new job, graduating, or getting married can lead to depression. So can moving, losing a job or income, getting divorced, or retiring.
* Other personal problems. Problems such as social isolation due to other mental illnesses or being cast out of a family or social group can lead to depression.
* Serious illnesses. Sometimes depression co-exists with a major illness or is a reaction to the illness.
* Substance abuse. Nearly 30% of people with substance abuse problems also have major or clinical depression.
More Here
There are a number of factors that may increase the chance of depression, including the following:
* Abuse. Past physical, sexual, or emotional abuse can cause depression later in life.
* Certain medications. For example, some drugs used to treat high blood pressure, such as beta-blockers or reserpine, can increase your risk of depression.
* Conflict. Depression may result from personal conflicts or disputes with family members or friends.
* Death or a loss. Sadness or grief from the death or loss of a loved one, though natural, can also increase the risk of depression.
* Genetics. A family history of depression may increase the risk. It’s thought that depression is passed genetically from one generation to the next. The exact way this happens, though, is not known.
* Major events. Even good events such as starting a new job, graduating, or getting married can lead to depression. So can moving, losing a job or income, getting divorced, or retiring.
* Other personal problems. Problems such as social isolation due to other mental illnesses or being cast out of a family or social group can lead to depression.
* Serious illnesses. Sometimes depression co-exists with a major illness or is a reaction to the illness.
* Substance abuse. Nearly 30% of people with substance abuse problems also have major or clinical depression.
More Here
I agree with you.
I would agree that depression is sometimes the result of unresolved conflict sometimes described as repressed anger. That was the old Freudian view. We've come a long way since then in understanding this disease but as has been pointed out we still don't really know what causes it. I believe that there are multiple causes. We don't know the exact cause or have a cure for Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease either both of which are also diseases affecting the brain but that doesn't mean we should attribute them to psychological or spiritual issues. Maybe these too have these as an underlying cause. I don't know. I do know that "mental illness" is what I consider to be the last medical problem still attributed to non-physical causes by many people. There was a time when all diseases were attributed to evil spirits or demons.
(emphasis mine) Modern medicine is not keeping you from being like Spurgeon. :smilewinkgrin:
As one of my profs used to say, "If you were like Spurgeon, we'd already know it".:laugh:
peace to youraying:
Never said I was like Spurgeon. I have gout and had to have both feet operated on. It is so painful that a bed sheet covering my feet would send intolerable pain into my feet and legs. What I am saying is, Spurgeon's depression was likely due to his lack of rest and not of any spiritual deficiency.
Spurgeon would wake up screaming, having dreamed a snake got into his bed and bit him in his toe.
Untreated gout causes kidney stones and will eventually totally destroy the kidneys. I CHS' day he did not get the treatment that I have be able to get. I personally have a new and much more profound respect for the man he was.
On top of Mr. Spurgeon's illnesses, he also suffered the loss of many participants of a falsely sounder fire alarm in the meeting hall where he was holding meeting whilst the Tabernacle was being built.
It is easy for us to quote a few verses and suggest one is less a believer because he suffers some ailments. Let these bible quoters write just half the material Spurgeon produced over his short lifetime, given the time he was off because of illness. Might not be so fast to point a finger then.
Cheers,
Jim
It is easy for us to quote a few verses and suggest one is less a believer because he suffers some ailments. Let these bible quoters write just half the material Spurgeon produced over his short lifetime, given the time he was off because of illness. Might not be so fast to point a finger then.
Cheers,
Jim
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Sorry Palatka51, I was attempting to make a joke.
That's why I won't leave my day job, I guess.
peace to you
raying:Interesting how many psychics were have here who can diagnose people without ever talking to them. This is like Freedom who declares depression an illness, but yet hasn't talked to the people he is declaring to be ill.
We have people playing armchair doctors, who are unarmed with the facts about the condition of depression, and the various complexities that go with it. Mitchell's list was a good start.
And BTW, failure to get proper rest might be a spiritual problem.
There really isn't much room for discussion on this. It may be a health issue that is uncontrollable, it may be a failure to rely on God and scripture or both. There just isn't much more to it. As far as Spurgeon goes who cares why he was depressed. Even if he has some Spiritual failing which all ministers have if they are honest, that failing is most likely what made him usable and humble enough for service.
You are correct that it might be a physical issue or it might be a spiritual issue. Or it might be a combination of both. But no matter what the cause, unbiblical behavior or thought patterns are never justified. Sin is still sin, even when it is a depressed person who is committing the sin.
One of the recurring themes here is the physical vs. spiritual dichotomy. First, I think it is probably a false dichotomy. The reality is that both are a factor, but we often do not know which causes which.
But second, and more importantly, if you have ever actually been depressed or dealt with a depressed person, you know how easily their depression, their "sickness," becomes an excuse for what they do.
"I skipped church because I was so depressed. I just couldn't stand to get out." Or "I didn't go to work because I was depressed." Or "I was rude to my spouse and cut her or him off from communication because I was depressed." Those behaviors and thought patterns are not justified. They are sin whether they come from a depressed person or not. As I said, sin is still sin, even when it is a depressed person who is committing the sin.
As counselors, we must focus on what a person loves. What is a depressed person loving that is causing them to think and act like they do? We need to get to the root of issues rather than the surface stuff.
Again, it is more complex than most people have any idea, and that is why the cheap and easy answers given by so many in this thread do nothing to bring hope, which is what a depressed person needs. That's why I cringe when I see what people say about this topic. I sincerely hope that they do some work on this issue before they ever try to help someone who is depressed.
How are you referring to when you say I haven't talked to the people I am declaring to be ill? Spurgeon? No I have never talked to him. Have you? I have talked to a lot of people who were depressed. You say personal experience isn't important here. I totally disagree with that statement. I've had personal experience and experience with those who are close to me. You infer that YOU have not.
Who's talking from experience and who's making this up as they go along here? I'll leave that question to the board.
I am not sure what this means unless you mean "Who" instead of "How." I was referring in general to people who are throwing out all kinds of reasons why people are depressed and yet haven't talked to them. One particular person (I can't remember who) made a pretty specific diagnosis of Mr. Spurgeon without talking to him. That made me laugh.
I don't know if that's true or not.
Where did I say that?
I do to. I don't recall saying that. Perhaps if you show it to me I can clarify what I meant.
Okay.
Really? Where did I imply (the proper word) that I have not?
I am not sure of your personal knowledge and awareness. I am quite sure I am not making it up. And I don't recall you actually addressing any arguments or statements that I have made. I don't sense from your responses here that you have had much experience with it from a counseling/treatment end. I sense that whatever experience you have had has been because of someone in your family who experienced and was treated.
The problem is that we have adopted terminology for a problem that is not always accurate. Anytime someone throws out the words "mental illness" they are often automatically granted legitimacy whether they know what they are talking about or not. The category of mental illness is not something that even medicine agrees on completely. And their definitions and responses certainly do not take into account Scripture.
So again, I say we need a more serious look at the issue rather than throwing out cheap and easy labels and solutions in a bottle. We need to take a deeper look and actually know what we are talking about. Perhaps you know, but I have not sensed it from your responses here.
Here are some statements:
Depression might be a spiritual issue.
Depression might be a physical issue.
The human body is complex and physical issues and spiritual issues are sometimes interrelated and inseparable.
Medicine has not yet determined whether physical issues are causes of depression or results of it. It is a greatly unstudied field.
No matter one's condition, obedience to God is non-negotiable.
Now, rather than trying to trade experiences and personal barbs, do you disagree with any of that?
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Good Word! :thumbs:
This I know as fact, when I suffered my first stroke and lost the use of my right side, speech and short-term memory, I was mor than a bit depressed, but it didn't affect my spirituality. I was physically and emotionally annoyed, but I still read scripture, best I could, and held regular prayer time.
I don't know if anyone else would understand this feeling, but imagine one who has preached all his life and suddenly could barely speak let alone preach. Frustrated is the only word that comes to mind.
If you want to say I became "unspiritual" I can live with that, even if I disagree. Some even said I should seek "healing" and I couldn't even smile. Look for a reason? I did that everyday. Get angry! I did that too....not at anyone in particular.
I think now I have some,,just some,,,understanding of people who suffer depression for whatever reason and I am not about to cite all kinds of scripture their way either.
I know that God has His plan, and I will do my best to fit into His plan, not mine.
Cheers,
Jim
I don't know if anyone else would understand this feeling, but imagine one who has preached all his life and suddenly could barely speak let alone preach. Frustrated is the only word that comes to mind.
If you want to say I became "unspiritual" I can live with that, even if I disagree. Some even said I should seek "healing" and I couldn't even smile. Look for a reason? I did that everyday. Get angry! I did that too....not at anyone in particular.
I think now I have some,,just some,,,understanding of people who suffer depression for whatever reason and I am not about to cite all kinds of scripture their way either.
I know that God has His plan, and I will do my best to fit into His plan, not mine.
Cheers,
Jim
short answer is because he is also a fallen human being.
Per our usual there has been unkindness toward each other in these posts.
But, I understand the frustration and anger of those of you who have rebuked others for their lack of knowledge and experience in this area.
When I was in my own state of emotional distress, one of the things I needed the most was a little understanding or at least some compassion from my fellow brethren.
To be honest, the world, the health workers, psychologists and psychiatrists gave me more support and genuine concern than the church.
In fact the church seemed to "shun" me probably because a Christian ought not to have these kinds of problems (And yes, that's a given). I was "institutionalized" for a while (off and on over several years) and only two that I can remember came from the church to see me. Mostly I was told to "snap out of it" or some such words and I can understand that as I was a threat to them as well. If it happened to me it could happen to them.
The little affection and support I got from other Christians was like water to a man dying of thirst.
Do you know any of these? Go, pray for and with them, reassure them that God still loves them. Hold a hand. Read Scripture of hope to them.
It will go a long way.
This was my song of misery for several years:
What was my unresolved conflict? I knew I was a believer but did not know why this horrible misery had come upon me.
The Lord eventually heard my prayer and after several years He gave me a new song:
But, I understand the frustration and anger of those of you who have rebuked others for their lack of knowledge and experience in this area.
When I was in my own state of emotional distress, one of the things I needed the most was a little understanding or at least some compassion from my fellow brethren.
To be honest, the world, the health workers, psychologists and psychiatrists gave me more support and genuine concern than the church.
In fact the church seemed to "shun" me probably because a Christian ought not to have these kinds of problems (And yes, that's a given). I was "institutionalized" for a while (off and on over several years) and only two that I can remember came from the church to see me. Mostly I was told to "snap out of it" or some such words and I can understand that as I was a threat to them as well. If it happened to me it could happen to them.
The little affection and support I got from other Christians was like water to a man dying of thirst.
Do you know any of these? Go, pray for and with them, reassure them that God still loves them. Hold a hand. Read Scripture of hope to them.
It will go a long way.
This was my song of misery for several years:
Psalm 88 (A Song or Psalm for the sons of Korah, to the chief Musician upon Mahalath Leannoth, Maschil of Heman the Ezrahite)
1 O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee:
2 Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry;
3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.
14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?
15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.
16 Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off.
17 They came round about me daily like water; they compassed me about together.
18 Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.
1 O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee:
2 Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry;
3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.
14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?
15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.
16 Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off.
17 They came round about me daily like water; they compassed me about together.
18 Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.
What was my unresolved conflict? I knew I was a believer but did not know why this horrible misery had come upon me.
The Lord eventually heard my prayer and after several years He gave me a new song:
Psalm 89 (Maschil of Ethan the Ezrahite)
1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
Spurgeon was one of many "men of God" who had emotional turmoil in their lives. Men such as John Bunyan and Jonathan Edwards were deeply afflicted with these symptoms accompanied with storms of emotional distress.
If nothing else be kind to those who are thus afflicted and:
"Love one another".
Pastors: "Feed my sheep". And I know many/most of you do.
HankD
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Beautiful post. Thank you brother. God bless. :flower: