On request, Different Gospels -#2.

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
That is not what Ryrie and Chafer say.

Dispensationalism teaches that an intrinsic and enduring distinction exists between Israel and the Church. “The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved, which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” [Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism ] Charles C. Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism writes about the above statement [page 39]: “This is probably the most basic theological test of whether or not a person is a dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and conclusive. The one who fails to distinguish Israel and the Church consistently will inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctives; and the one who does will.”

Response Posted by Allan
Yes, no problem here.

But what do that state is the dispensational belief 'after the mil-reign'. What you quote refers to what God has done is and is going to be doing up till that point. You never go further, why??? Because we hold they will all become one body, one group, one church - AFTER the Mil-reign.

The above quotes from Chafer and Ryrie say nothing about "after the millennium". You are reading something that is not there to justify your opinion.

In fact Chafer says "throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes"]/b]. That indicates that throughout eternity there will be an earthly Jewish people and a heavenly Christian people. In fact if some of the Old Testament promises are applied strictly and literally to Israel that means an eternal earthly kingdom for Israel.
__________________

 

[OldRegular]

No one said that is wasn't, in 'this dispensation of grace'. However that does not negate the 'fact' that we also believe 'after' the mil-reign they both will become one - the 'Church'.

That may be what you believe but that is not what Chafer and Ryrie say.

Can you present any Scripture to justify the above statements?

Paul's parable of the olive tree shows that there is only one people of God, those justified by faith in both the Old and New Testaments. Those people constitute the Church for whom Jesus Christ died:

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Can you point to one verse of Scripture that states that Jesus Christ died to purchase unbelieving Israel.

 

[ituttut]

The only thing that happened on the Damascus Road was that Saul who says he was a persecutor of the Church was saved.

You are right, and My Bible says his encounter with Jesus Christ on Damascus Road lead to Paul being appointed to be the Apostle to the Gentile, and the Jew. You can't just read one verse and understand what happened.

1Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Now which church did Saul persecute Ituttut, the Peterine Church or the Pauline Church?

Paul was the Chief Persecutor of those that were of the only known church at that time, The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Jerusalem.

Please check into this further, in your Bible, and you will find later there are two (2) foundations laid by man on the Foundation of Jesus Christ. Peter laid a foundation on it and it is called The Kingdom Church.

Paul also laid a foundation of the foundation of Jesus Christ. Paul said he would not build on another man's (Peter) foundation. The foundation that Paul laid down is called The Body of Christ Church.

By the way Ituttut, why was Saul Baptized?

Acts 9:17, 18
17. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Jesus told Paul to go to the City, and he would be told what he MUST do. Notice to where Paul was sent. Not to Jerusalem, but to Damascus. Ananias told Saul the one (Jesus) that appeared to him on Damascus Road instructed him (Ananias) to place his hand on Saul in order for him to receive his sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. This was done and immediately Saul was baptized. Saul was a Jew, making it necessary he be baptized, but Saul was never told to repent and be baptized for the remission of his sins. Even though no one knew (Many to this day don't know) this was the beginning of the Body of Christ being formed away from the Jerusalem Kingdom Church.

What does Paul mean when he writes the following?

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

It says what it says. Worldly sorrow is Not Repentance for all we do is stand still in our sins, Our Sorrows. We can see here that Sorrow, and Repentance are disjoined. Sorrow in itself is not Repentance. We can sorrow to death, or to life. In looking at verse 8 we can see the Greek word here is in the sense of “metamellomai”, and Paul does not REGRET what has been done. Yet he says he did repent (Metanoeo) in Godly sorrow.

I find help in understanding sorrow in I Thessalonians 4:13, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." I have to wonder when at funerals I see afterwards any that continue in their sorrow, for they have No Hope. It doesn't mean the one that died is not justified, but the person themselves who sorrow will continue to wailer in their sins. This is not sorrow to godly repentance we find in Metanoeo repentance for this is a changing of our mental position. We turn our backs to Satan, to face the Light, our Lord Jesus Christ.

You have argued that both repentance and baptism were not a part of your heretical, nonexistent gospel.


So you are saying that all the ministry of Jesus Christ is to be thrown away. That is blasphemy of the worst sort Ituttut.

Dear friend OldRegular, I said it before, and will keep saying it -- You do not read what I say, or you fail to comprehend what I am saying. I have never said today Metanoeo repentance is not necessary, and that the one baptism without hands is not necessary. I do not Live in OT Times, and I am not justifiedas they.

I wish you would quit slandering me, with your misunderstandings.

Everyone who has every been saved has been saved through the Grace of my Lord Jesus Christ. To claim otherwise is to lie.

Well finally you have got it right OldRegular. Everyone now has, or can be saved by the GRACE of God, THROUGH the Faith of Jesus Christ. What you are rejecting is the Word of God. How in the world could Moses or David be JUSTIFIED THROUGH THE FAITH OF JESUS Christ. They did not even know His Name, and there is no way they could come THROUGH HIS BLOOD, as He had not yet Shed It. And please don't tell me they knew His Name for they did not. And don't tell me they KNEW of what God said He had hidden from man, until After Damascus Road. Can we believe God, or do we believe MIGHTY MAN.

 

[OldRegular]

Posted by OldRegular
1Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Now which church did Saul persecute Ituttut, the Peterine Church or the Pauline Church?

Response by Ituttut
Paul was the Chief Persecutor of those that were of the only known church at that time, The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Jerusalem.

Please check into this further, in your Bible, and you will find later there are two (2) foundations laid by man on the Foundation of Jesus Christ. Peter laid a foundation on it and it is called The Kingdom Church.

Paul also laid a foundation of the foundation of Jesus Christ. Paul said he would not build on another man's (Peter) foundation. The foundation that Paul laid down is called The Body of Christ Church.

1. Paul was headed to Damascus to persecute Christians so there was obviously a Church there.
2. What Scripture talks about The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Jerusalem? I would like to read it. What was the Church at Damascus called? The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Damascus?.
3. Where in Scripture does it talk about two [2] different foundations laid by man on the Foundation of Jesus Christ?
4. Where in Scripture is the name Kingdom Church used? Just what is a Kingdom Church?
5. Where in Scripture is the name Body of Christ Church used?

In the following Scripture Paul states:
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:

There is no indication at all that Paul was speaking of Peter in this Scripture. If he were and if Peter were preaching a Gospel different than that of Paul was Paul not obligated to take Peter to task as he had earlier. Ituttut you are totally misusing this passage of Scripture in an attempt to prove something that is untrue; namely that Paul preached a Gospel other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel that Peter preached. The same Gospel that all the Apostles preached [except Judas].

You obviously have a vivid though distorted imagination Ituttut. As a consequence your beliefs are heretical Ituttut and bring reproach on the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

Original post by OldRegular
What does Paul mean when he writes the following?

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Response posted by Ituttut
It says what it says. Worldly sorrow is Not Repentance for all we do is stand still in our sins, Our Sorrows. We can see here that Sorrow, and Repentance are disjoined. Sorrow in itself is not Repentance. We can sorrow to death, or to life. In looking at verse 8 we can see the Greek word here is in the sense of “metamellomai”, and Paul does not REGRET what has been done. Yet he says he did repent (Metanoeo) in Godly sorrow.

Ituttut you did not answer the question. Paul states that: godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. Yet you have argued that Paul's Gospel for Gentiles never says anything about repentance relative to salvation, while what you call Peter's Gospel for the Jews does. All you do in the above response is dance around a little and throw in a couple of Greek words to impress or confuse. Is Paul confused about his Gospel or are you confused about the Gospel of Jesus Christ which Paul preached as did Peter.

Just answer the question ituttut: What does Paul mean when he writes the following?

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.[/quote]

 

[OldRegular]

Post by OldRegular
Everyone who has every been saved has been saved through the Grace of my Lord Jesus Christ. To claim otherwise is to lie.

Response by ituttut
Well finally you have got it right OldRegular. Everyone now has, or can be saved by the GRACE of God, THROUGH the Faith of Jesus Christ. What you are rejecting is the Word of God. How in the world could Moses or David be JUSTIFIED THROUGH THE FAITH OF JESUS Christ. They did not even know His Name, and there is no way they could come THROUGH HIS BLOOD, as He had not yet Shed It. And please don't tell me they knew His Name for they did not. And don't tell me they KNEW of what God said He had hidden from man, until After Damascus Road. Can we believe God, or do we believe MIGHTY MAN.

ituttut
The above is worse than no answer. I made the simple statement that: Everyone who has every been saved has been saved through the Grace of my Lord Jesus Christ and you respond as above. Are you denying that truth or not? It is not clear from what you say above, particularly regarding Moses and David. Please tell me how they were saved, by Grace or otherwise.

As for what they knew listen to what the Apostle Paul tells us:

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Now what Gospel was preached to Abraham?

 

[gb93433]

Sadly the only thing many dispensationalists know about dispensational theology is that the Church will be raptured out and they won't have to face death or the GRRrreat Tribulation.

It sounds like they followed Hal Lindsey who set a date for Jesus' return but missed the date.

 

[OldRegular]

It sounds like they followed Hal Lindsey who set a date for Jesus' return but missed the date.

But he made a lot of money just as LeHaye and Jenkins have.

 

[gb93433]

But he made a lot of money just as LeHaye and Jenkins have.

It shows the condition of those who follow him just like those who follow Benny Hinn.

 

[Winman]

The OT saints were saved by trusting in Christ. No, they did not know his specific name, or many of the details, but they looked for the promised saviour. And the Bible says this.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

And here are some that looked for this saviour.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

This woman could hardly be called a saint, she had been married many times and was living with a man outside marriage. But she believed the OT scriptures and looked for and trusted in the promised Messiah.

And, as the story goes she ran into town and told everyone she had found the Christ. And when these who also truly believed the OT scriptures met and heard Jesus, they believed as well.

John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

You see, those who believed the OT scriptures and understood them (you must believe the scriptures to understand them), looked for the Christ, the Saviour. They understood they were not going to be saved by works.

It is only false dispensational teaching that confuses you. Believe the scriptures, not theories of man.

 

[ituttut]

Part 1 (Wife calls at this moment

ituttut


I don't know if I can answer that, I am not sure I even understand what you are saying for certain.

I too don't know if I can answer you, for I don't know to what you are referring to.

I will say this, your belief is very flexible. It is difficult (actually, impossible) to argue against doctrine that conveniently evolves to suit any argument presented against it.

This is the first time I've heard that the gospel of Paul is flexible. Entering into the Body of Christ Church is not flexible, but therein is freedom to live the Christian life, not judging others in the Body of Christ Church, and free of don't do this, or that, when scripture does not call for it.

There is only one entrance into Christ's Church, and that by the Grace of God, through faith, and not anything we do. It is the gift of God, without any work of man. This is not flexibility, but what God tells us today. I find in His Word we either stand on the foundation the gospel of Christ Jesus as given to the Apostle Paul, to the GENTILE; or on the foundation that Jesus gave to Peter, that gospel being to Israel, those of the circumcised gospel.

Have you noticed the denominations tend to straddle, with one foot on the foundation laid by Peter, and the other foot on the foundation laid by Paul? They both are laid on the foundation of Jesus Christ. I try to keep both feet on the gospel of Paul in order to not go through the 'Tribulation.

I perceive you are a dispensationalist. I don't pretend to know everything about this persuasion, and from limited experience I know that there are many various beliefs among dispensationalists.

You are correct, but we are all a "dispensationalist in one form or another.

One thing I have heard that most dispensationalists seem to agree on is that the Jews had to be baptized to be saved and receive the Holy Ghost. But there is scripture contrary to this.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

This was Jesus speaking to Jews only. What dispensation was this? They were still under the law. But notice Jesus tells these Jews that they will receive the Holy Ghost by believeing on him. No mention of baptism whatsoever. And vs. 39 informs us that the only reason those Jews who believed on Jesus at this time had not received the Holy Ghost is because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Good try, but have you forgotten the gospel of John the Baptist? Jesus did preach this gospel, as did His Apostles, After Jesus was glorified. What gospel to Israel did Peter preach to Israel on the day at Pentecost. Acts 2:36-39, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

 

[ituttut]

Part 2

Now, if the Jews had to be baptized to receive the Holy Ghost, then Jesus left out a mighty important detail, didn't he? Of course, if the Jews only need believe on Jesus to receive the Holy Ghost, then Jesus did not leave out anything.

You may believe Jesus "left out a mighty important detail", but I know He didn't. Who has been telling you this hogwash? Have you been reading your Bible, verse by verse? See below.

Now, go to Acts 2

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

How many people were present here? About 120 (Acts 1:15).

How many were baptized? If you are honest you will answer that you do not know. I don't know, and I do not know of any scripture that tells us that these 120 were all baptized. So you cannot assume they were. I am sure many were, and maybe all, but no one knows for sure.

Evidently the only reason you say the above is for you do not believe your Bible. I know about 120 of those gathered there had be baptized as John the Baptist required of Israel. We are to comprehend what we read. Acts 1:3-5, "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

If you are honest you have to answer Yes they had all been baptized, for those that believed John the Baptist, and Jesus, would do what they are told. Why do think they were together in this place? They were told to be there.

I know for a fact all there were baptized according to the command of John the Baptist, and NOW you known, i.e. if you believe His Word.

One thing I do know though, these all received the Holy Ghost and baptism is never mentioned.

But again you wrongly assume Jesus has no idea of what He says. Both Baptisms are, without ambiguity, placed in the Bible for us to believe. He shows this in Acts 1:5 above.

Before leaving though you completely ignore Acts 2:37-38, "

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

So if you are honest you should admit you make a falsehood of believing the Body of Christ Church began before Damascus Road. For Pete's sake, can you not Now see the gospel Jesus, and his Apostles preached the gospel of John the Baptist, and that GOSPEL was to Israel, that they must repent, and they must be baptized for the remission of their sins, FOR THE Kingdom was at hand.

If the Gospel of John the Baptist is the last gospel, then there would be no need whatever for any scripture to be written after Acts 9, Damascus Road, for you would have never heard what Christ Jesus from heaven revealed to Paul. There are churches that adhere to every aspect (and some who just believe that part they wish to believe) to the Gospel of John the Baptist, and what Jesus commanded in His departing words to His Apostles in one setting (Matthew 28:19-20;Mark 16:15-20, then Luke 24:46-50, and John 20:21-23.

As for the church, show me even one scripture that distinguishes the church that started here at Pentecost with the Jews from any other church. I can show you scripture that says that they are one.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

We know what the word NOW means? The present tense means NOW, and not BEFORE. It was not before possible for the Gentile to be in the Inner Court of the Temple. This is ABOMINATION. NOW can only become the Present beginning at Damascus Road, and Not Before.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Amen! It is just as Peter said, NOW "we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." The Body of Christ is all encompassing and those of the Kingdom Church are under the Headship of Jesus Christ. Will those of the Kingdom Church, those that repented and were baptized for the repentance of their sins, reign on this earth with their KING? The Bible says THEY WILL. We not of the "covenant people" were never included in this promise. To be sure proselytes into the Kingdom Church will be on this earth with them, but they Will Be Subject to the Jew, and cannot go worship unless they hang on to the coattail of one of God's Chosen People. If you know your OT, you know this to be true.

Are we of the BODY OF CHRIST, not becoming a member in that Promised Kingdom to His People, ever promised this earth? Ephesians 1:3-7, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace".

I do not look for that Kingdom to Come until I have been bodily resurrected, or caught up to Him in the Air. Those wishing to go through the Tribulation are welcome to it, to go marching into that Kingdom on earth. I wish no such thing. I have chosen to be with him for all eternity, wherever He may be.

 

[OldRegular]

Ituttut: You have yet to answer these simple questions!

Questions previously posed to Ituttut by OldRegular
1. Paul was headed to Damascus to persecute Christians so there was obviously a Church there.
2. What Scripture talks about The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Jerusalem? I would like to read it. What was the Church at Damascus called? The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Damascus?.
3. Where in Scripture does it talk about two [2] different foundations laid by man on the Foundation of Jesus Christ?
4. Where in Scripture is the name Kingdom Church used? Just what is a Kingdom Church?
5. Where in Scripture is the name Body of Christ Church used?

In the following Scripture Paul states:
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:

There is no indication at all that Paul was speaking of Peter in this Scripture. If he were and if Peter were preaching a Gospel different than that of Paul was Paul not obligated to take Peter to task as he had earlier? Ituttut you are totally misusing this passage of Scripture in an attempt to prove something that is untrue; namely that Paul preached a Gospel other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel that Peter preached. The same Gospel that all the Apostles preached [except Judas].

You obviously have a vivid though distorted imagination Ituttut. As a consequence your beliefs are heretical Ituttut and bring reproach on the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

Ituttut: You have not yet responded to the following comment!

Question for Ituttut
Just answer the question ituttut: What does Paul mean when he writes the following?

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

You have argued that repentance is not a part of the Gospel of Paul which is really not another Gospel but is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel that Peter preached.

 

[ituttut]

Yes, no problem here.

But what do that state is the dispensational belief 'after the mil-reign'. What you quote refers to what God has done is and is going to be doing up till that point. You never go further, why??? Because we hold they will all become one body, one group, one church - AFTER the Mil-reign.

Thanks for that.

 

[ituttut]

Have to cut-off. Going out of town

1. Paul was headed to Damascus to persecute Christians so there was obviously a Church there.

There were no Christians in Damascus at time. That does not come until later as you can find, and it is in Antioch they can be found, as Barnabas had Paul to come into that church, and after that the name Christianity had its beginning, and not before. Not in Jerusalem, Judah, but in Gentile territory. That church in Jerusalem was dying out - the Old, making way for the New. How can you account for James taking over that dying church? Peter, and John knew it would be made inoperable, for Israel still, even with the Power of the Holy Ghost to assist, refused Messiah.

Yes there were synagogues there, just as in Judah. They were there because of Saul's persecution of the Pentecostal church in Jerusalem. Saul had just about run out of souls to persecute in Judah, so he was now going after those that he had scattered into Gentile territory. People just do not realize what a terror Saul was, for he was going after everyone that defamed His God (in his misunderstanding). How had those of the gospel John the Baptist blasphemed His God? They believed a man that said He was the same as God. Paul was an ardent Pharisee, high on the totem pole of this sect, believing anyone that could do the miracles that Jesus did must be of Satan.

2. What Scripture talks about The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Jerusalem? I would like to read it. What was the Church at Damascus called? The Apostolic Pentecostal church in Damascus?

It is all in the Bible. Please read Acts for clarification. The Gospel of John the Baptist was to begin in Jerusalem and then spread to Samaria, and to the utter most parts of the world. Who was it that was to preach this gospel of John the Baptist? The 12 Apostles that were headquartered in Jerusalem. When the house of Israel had accepted their Messiah, then their disciples were to then go with the gospel of John the Baptist into the whole world. It is the Jew, and only the Jew that was to preach this gospel to the world. This is not the gospel that is given to the Gentile to spread to the world.

If you have noticed that gospel was rejected, so that commission could not be carried out. The Apostles never got out of Jerusalem until sometime after his own people, with Saul's approval, killed Stephen.

The Church at Damascus was called a branch of the Apostolic Pentecostal church, Mission churches if you will. What would you call them?

3. Where in Scripture does it talk about two [2] different foundations laid by man on the Foundation of Jesus Christ?

Are you sure you have a Bible that includes the book of Acts, and the Epistles of Paul? I'll let scripture speak for itself.

Romans 15:20, "Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:"

I Corinthians 3:9-11, "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 2:20-22, "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Acts 28:28, "Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it."

4. Where in Scripture is the name Kingdom Church used? Just what is a Kingdom Church?

Please notice I am not charging for these sessions of understanding the Word of God.

Acts 3:18-20, "But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:"

Couple this with Acts 2:37-28.

5. Where in Scripture is the name Body of Christ Church used?

Acts 13:2, "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."

In the following Scripture Paul states:
Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:

There is no indication at all that Paul was speaking of Peter in this Scripture. If he were and if Peter were preaching a Gospel different than that of Paul was Paul not obligated to take Peter to task as he had earlier. Ituttut you are totally misusing this passage of Scripture in an attempt to prove something that is untrue; namely that Paul preached a Gospel other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the same Gospel that Peter preached. The same Gospel that all the Apostles preached [except Judas].

Show me where Peter or Paul preached the gospel of repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins. Show me in scripture where Paul ever preached to a Gentile to repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins.

You obviously have a vivid though distorted imagination Ituttut. As a consequence your beliefs are heretical Ituttut and bring reproach on the name of Jesus Christ.

I note your insistence to be numbered with all those that believe you must repent and be baptized by the hands of man to gain repentance of your sins.

 

[OldRegular]

Show me in scripture where Paul ever preached to a Gentile to repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins.

Ituttut, I have never argued that Paul preached repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins. I have simply said that your insistence that there are two different Gospels is unbiblical and makes a liar out of Paul since he teaches in Galatians that there is only one Gospel and anyone who claims otherwise is accursed. You have insisted that Paul never says anything about repentance for the Gentile. I simply prove by Scripture that you are mistaken. Please note the following.

The church at Corinth is obviously a Church composed primarily of Gentiles. There may have been some ethnic Jews there I don't know, neither do you. The Apostle Paul writes to this Church:

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

So you see Ituttut, contrary to your argument the Apostle Paul does speak of repentance to the Gentiles.

I note your insistence to be numbered with all those that believe you must repent and be baptized by the hands of man to gain repentance of your sins.

You can note, surmise, guess, postulate, etc. all you want Ituttut but you are incorrect as usual. The only requirement I have insisted on for salvation is to be among the elect. These God will bring to salvation.

That being said repentance is a part of salvation, just as regeneration, forgiveness, faith, justification, sanctification, and eventually glorification!

 

[OldRegular]

There were no Christians in Damascus at time.

Then why was Paul going to Damascus? Scripture states:

Acts 9:1, 2

1. And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2. And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

"Disciples of the Lord" and "any of this way" indicates Christians and where there are Christians there is a Church, that is "called out ones". Or you can find Scripture referring to the Church as the Body of Christ, or the Bride of Christ, or the Bride of the Lamb.

So Cheers to you Ituttut as Jim1999 would say.

 

[Winman]

Ituttut said:

Show me in scripture where Paul ever preached to a Gentile to repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins.

I cannot show you that, but I can show you where Peter preached to Jews to repent and did not mention baptism whatsoever, but forgiveness of sins.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here Peter never mentions baptism, only that they repent and be converted that their sins may be blotted out.

And I know that dispensationalists believe that Peter preached the re-establisment of the kingdom. But if you read closely you will see that Jesus will not return until at least two times have passed.

Now, I have never understood how dispensationalists who put such emphasis on divisions of times or ages can overlook this, but they do. The scripture says the heaven must receive Jesus until the TIMES of restitution of all things. So there is no way Jesus is going to return immediately.

And if you read Acts 1 you will see Jesus said the same thing.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

I don't know how dispensationalist overlook this either (actually I do, because it is completely contrary to their false teaching).

It doesn't get any clearer than this. The apostles asked Jesus directly if he would restore the kingdom at this time.

Jesus told them this information is not for them to know. So, there is no way Peter is going to tell the Jews Jesus would return immediately, because Peter does not know this.

But notice Jesus also mentions TIMES (plural) and SEASONS (plural).

So, at least two times or seasons must pass before Jesus returns whether the Jews repent and get baptized, or whatever they do.

So, this teaching that Jesus would return immediately if the Jews would repent and be baptized is absolutely false and contradicted by direct scripture.

Their job was to be witnesses (preach the Gospel), starting at Jerusalem, all Judaea, Samaria, and then to the uttermost part of the earth. Now, if this was a different gospel, why would it be preached to the uttermost part of the earth? Answer- it wouldn't. It would have been preached to the Jews only. So, this also proves that there is one gospel that was preached both to the Jews and Gentiles.

It is only because you have listened to the false teachings of hyperdispensationalism that you cannot see this. Believe the scriptures and reject the false teachings of man.

 

[Winman]

And Jesus himself preached to the Jews that they could receive the Holy Spirit and never mentioned baptism.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Who is Jesus speaking to here? Jews only.

What must they do to receive the Spirit, the Holy Ghost? Believe on Him.

Does Jesus mention baptism? No

Does Jesus mention the restoration of the kingdom? No.

So, if it was necessay that the Jews be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit, then Jesus left out a very important detail, didn't he? Of course, if the Jews only need believe on Jesus without baptism to receive the Holy Spirit, then Jesus did not leave out anything, did he?

And Peter confirms this later in Acts if you read carefully.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Read that carefully. Does Peter say the Jews received the Holy Spirit upon being baptized? No, he says that they received the Holy Spirit by hearing God's Word (as I began to speak). And in verse 17 he confirms they received the gift by believeing (who believed).

So, this is in perfect agreement with John 7:38 where Jesus said those who believed on him would receive the Holy Spirit.