On request, Different Gospels -#2.

[ituttut]

Ituttut

I have proven nothing OldRegular, for it is scripture that proves there are Two Gospels.

The verses say what they say, and that is the Gentiles fitly framed together with the Jew, and will grow into a holy temple in the Lord. Notice it Will Grow Unto.

Paul does not try to take away from what was shown the Apostles appointed by Jesus while He was on earth, but Paul is also an Apostle appointed by Christ Jesus. So Paul here as in other places tells us something we didn't know before, doesn't he?

Paul tells us he would not lay a foundation on another man's foundation, which he lays on the foundation of Jesus Christ. There is a purpose for this, and it is to show that we justified through faith will fit firmly together with those justified by faith "unto an holy temple in the Lord".

Don't you find it interesting that Peter says they can NOW be saved just as we Gentiles? Nowhere can we find in the Bible (other than proselytization) that we today are to be justified by faith.

 

[ituttut]

Ituttut

I have never read such nonsense coming from one who claims to be a Christian. There is no such thing as the Gospel of John the Baptist. The Baptist was simply the forerunner of Jesus Christ and the fulfillment of prophecy.

To argue there was a Gospel of John the Baptist borders on blasphemy if it is not blasphemy. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ! The Apostle Paul states that anyone who says otherwise is to be accursed. Those are harsh words Ituttut and they apply to you.

All I can say is what I have said before, may God have mercy on you!

Thanks for your concern, and judgment of, but perhaps you may wish to apply that thought to yourself. I do not believe you are lost my friend, but just a little confused by what you do not seem to be able to find in your Bible. We find truth in His Word, and not in any other book, or understanding of man.

Even as scripture is pointed out to you, you still do not believe what God tells you to believe. I do wish you would believe what Jesus tells you.

Try this on for size, if it will fit onto that big head of yours. John 3:22-26, "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24. For John was not yet cast into prison.
25. Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him."

If you believe what your read above, no further comment should be necessary. But since you do not seem to understand such things, may I point out to you that those Jews that were there at the time could see no difference in the gospel preached to them. John came first preaching the gospel of the Kingdom, and then Jesus did preach the Gospel of John the Baptist, for it is the purpose of John to make way for Jesus Christ to preach That Gospel, and pass that same Gospel on to His Apostles.

I am so sorry you do not believe your Bible.

 

[ituttut]

ituttut

I agree with you on repentance. Repentance in salvation is turning from unbelief to belief.

When Peter told the Jews to repent, he was telling them to believe Jesus was the Christ. They had not believed this before, they believed him to be a blasphemer, this was the official charge they used to condemn him.

Mark 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

So Peter preached the Jews to repent, or change their mind and believe that Jesus was indeed the Son of God and trust on him for salvation.

Where I do disagree with you is where you think Paul preached a different gospel than John the Baptist, Jesus, and the apostles in early Acts. Paul himself confirms that John the Baptist was preaching the same message that he was.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

John the Baptist was not preaching the restoration of the kingdom, John was preaching that the people should believe on Jesus Christ. This is the exact same gospel as Paul preached.

I can understand your difficulty here, but John the Baptist does say he is preaching the kingdom is at hand. And yes the reason it is at hand is because when Israel accepts Messiah, that Kingdom would come. We can see at Pentecost how it Will Begin. But in John the Baptist gospel to the Jew was the necessity of God's people to repent, turning again to the covenant they made with God. There is no way in the world they could get to the kingdom unless they returned to the promises made them in the Covenant.

I don't see we have to big a chasm between us, other than I see another Gospel, that is not another gospel as we see in Galatians 1:6-7. I am not under Bondage. The "troublers" shown in verse 7 are those of the circumcision gospel of God. But Paul says they wish to bring we Gentiles Into Bondage. He will have none of it for Paul knows we Gentiles are called into the Grace of Christ.

This gospel We Gentiles have did not come from the Covenant people that Jesus said He came for while on earth, but from heaven above where Christ Jesus today lives. The man died, but God didn't. He lives and NOW says for by the grace of God, through faith, We are to Come without any works, and without a COVENANT promise, but of an inheritance in Him.

Can you see this in Ephesians 1:9-14? "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

Can you see it? both which are in heaven, and which are on earth. I have not been promised this earth, so I must be of the Heavenlies, awaiting the Rapture.

 

[ituttut]

This is my final word to you Ituttut. The above statement is a flat out lie and you know it is a lie. The doctrine you spout on this forum about two gospels is heresy and you will have to answer to the Lord Jesus Christ before the Great White Throne for corrupting His Gospel.

Your judgment noted, as I look for the Rapture.
If we are in the Body, should such things be said, as you say?

 

[ituttut]

Say what? How about the day of Pentacost? I think there were quite a few new born Christians on that day!

Hello Amy.G.

Did you know that Christianity was unknown to the world, until they sent for Paul to come to Antioch? Antioch was the Center of Christianity, and not Jerusalem.

In Jerusalem we find "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". My sins have been remitted differently. I do not have to be baptized as some churches believe they must to be saved. Why? For their sins can not be removed unless they are Baptized.

 

[ituttut]

Honestly, I don't know what kind of doctrine Ituttut is teaching here. I tried to read this thread from the beginning (sorry, I haven't been following it), but I don't think I've ever heard anything like this.

Paul was chosen by God to be the apostle to the Gentiles, but the church existed some time before Paul's conversion. It was the church that Paul was persecuting.

Act 9:4
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

How can anyone say the church didn't exist until Paul????

Hi again Amy. Most people today do not hear what Christ Jesus from heaven says, so I can understand what you say.

Paul was chosen by God to be the apostle to the Gentiles, but the church existed some time before Paul's conversion. It was the church that Paul was persecuting.

But what church was it that existed at that time? If we will only listen to what Jesus says while He is on earth, and what He says from heaven, we can see there is another Gospel, yet it is not another Gospel. Why isn't it. One is the church of the covenant people, and the other is the church of the heavenlies.

Those of the Earthly church are justified by faith. If we believe what Christ from heaven revealed to Paul, we today should believe we are justified through faith.

 

[Amy.G]

If we will only listen to what Jesus says while He is on earth, and what He says from heaven, we can see there is another Gospel, yet it is not another Gospel. Why isn't it. One is the church of the covenant people, and the other is the church of the heavenlies.

Those of the Earthly church are justified by faith. If we believe what Christ from heaven revealed to Paul, we today should believe we are justified through faith.

Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


Written by the apostle Paul.

 

[Lux et veritas]

Two gospels? I think I'll just let Paul answer that one...

Galatians 1:6-9
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[OldRegular]

Amy

Ituttut doesn't understand that by and through are synonyms. If one looks at the faith chapter, Hebrews 11, and uses a Strong's concordance he, or she, will see that the words through faith and by faith translate the same Greek word.

 

[ituttut]

Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


Written by the apostle Paul.

Amen. Can you find elsewhere in your Bible where such as these or understood. Could the seven (7) ones be part of what God had hidden from man? Who tells us of the Rapture, the Body of Christ, and other revelations Christ Jesus from heaven gave to Paul? Colossians 1:26, "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:"

I myself do believe that Christ Jesus did appoint Paul to be my Apostle, and not only me a Gentile, but as Peter says, we can now be saved, just as they (Acts 15-11.

Amy, I see here that Peter and the others at been in a holding pattern until Christ Jesus made it possible for them also toNOW Be Saved "through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ". If we can only come to read Acts with understanding, we see this could never happen until After Damascus Road. ARE ALL THINGS THE SAME AS FROM THE BEGINNING?

II Corinthians 5:16-18 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;"

I know how hard it is to believe the revelations from Christ in Heaven, but if we say we believe scripture, why do so many refuse to believe what they do not wish to believe. Jesus while on earth said He came only for His Covenant People, and that left me out. Since He went to heaven, and made known to us He actually does exist when talking to Saul/Paul on Damascus Road, He wants us to Now Believe What He Tells Us From Heaven.

 

[OldRegular]

Amy

You and I disagree on the doctrine of election. It seems we are in close agreement on other doctrines though I could be wrong. I would advise you, and I believe others on this Forum would do the same: The teaching of Ituttut that there are two Gospels is heresy. Furthermore, as someone on this forum has stated ultra or hyper dispensationalism, the belief of Ituttut, is heretical. These people claim at most that only the writings of Paul are applicable to the Church. Other groups within that body argue that only the prison epistles of Paul are applicable to the Church.

Some of Ituttut's writing seems innocuous but they are heretical when taken as a whole. That fact and some personal lies about me are the reasons I no longer respond to Ituttut.

As a Christian brother I would advise you to avoid his writings.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy

You and I disagree on the doctrine of election. It seems we are in close agreement on other doctrines though I could be wrong. I would advise you, and I believe others on this Forum would do the same: The teaching of Ituttut that there are two Gospels is heresy. Furthermore, as someone on this forum has stated ultra or hyper dispensationalism, the belief of Ituttut, is heretical. These people claim at most that only the writings of Paul are applicable to the Church. Other groups within that body argue that only the prison epistles of Paul are applicable to the Church.

Some of Ituttut's writing seems innocuous but they are heretical when taken as a whole. That fact and some personal lies about me are the reasons I no longer respond to Ituttut.

As a Christian brother I would advise you to avoid his writings.

Thank you OR. Yes, you and I agree on a great many things. :thumbsup:

This doctrine of Ituttut's is very strange and I do not see it in scripture. I agree that it is best for us all to avoid it.

 

[ituttut]

To no one in particular - SO LONG.



To no one in particular, I leave now refusing to judge any one of you dear one's in the Body of Christ Church. All judgment is left to Him, and He will (I hope) find you in His Body. I have no idea in which part of His Body I am in, for He does not tell us such things.

However, we should be able to determine if we are in the Kingdom Jesus Christ gives to His Apostles, or if we are with Christ Jesus in His Kingdom.

I know many believe this to be heresy, but I will not depart from my Lord, or my HOME. He will not allow it. Luke 22:28-29, "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me"

God's blessings on all the Saved.

 

[DHK]

To no one in particular, I leave now refusing to judge any one of you dear one's in the Body of Christ Church. All judgment is left to Him, and He will (I hope) find you in His Body. I have no idea in which part of His Body I am in, for He does not tell us such things.

However, we should be able to determine if we are in the Kingdom Jesus Christ gives to His Apostles, or if we are with Christ Jesus in His Kingdom.

I know many believe this to be heresy, but I will not depart from my Lord, or my HOME. He will not allow it. Luke 22:28-29, "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me"

God's blessings on all the Saved.

On that note I believe this thread should be closed.