Marcia
Active Member
I disagree with infant baptism, but at least they were following the biblical view that everyone is born needing redemption in God's eyes. It's an acknowledgement that we are born needing regeneration.
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Infants in Heaven
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
I disagree with infant baptism, but at least they were following the biblical view that everyone is born needing redemption in God's eyes. It's an acknowledgement that we are born needing regeneration.
That they were wrong on baptism does not negate the fact they believed theologically in original sin, the condemnatory sin we all suffer guilt from.
The only scripture we rest on for the erroneous concept of "age of accountability" is when David says he will see his son in heaven. There is not one verse of scripture to support this romantic notion.
If anyone is saved apart from believing on Christ, it is at the absolute mercy of God by grace.
Cheers,
Jim
The only scripture we rest on for the erroneous concept of "age of accountability" is when David says he will see his son in heaven. There is not one verse of scripture to support this romantic notion.
If anyone is saved apart from believing on Christ, it is at the absolute mercy of God by grace.
Cheers,
Jim
j_barner2000
Member
Look to Genesis. Adam and Eve were not sinless. They were innocent. (blameless) They had no knowledge of good and evil until they ate the fruit. I believe that indicates that there is a point in most lives where we become "morrally aware." not of the law, but of right and wrong. That is the point where we become accountable.
Scripture is completely silent on the issue of babies in heaven. David's comment on his child may or may not be correct. There is nothing found anywhere else in scripture to support his statement. And statements or debate on this issue is pure speculation.
I see a lot of reasoning going on ie "if such and such is true then it means this and that are also true". We need to be careful of our own reasoning especially when scripture is so silent on the issue. The truth is no one has it figured out not even our Reformed brothers.
I see a lot of reasoning going on ie "if such and such is true then it means this and that are also true". We need to be careful of our own reasoning especially when scripture is so silent on the issue. The truth is no one has it figured out not even our Reformed brothers.
An unfortunate and unbiblical declaration indeed.
This is the problem with decisional salvation, it requires us to come up with a different system for the infants and the mentally handicapped to be saved. Jesus, when discussing the new birth with Nicodemus, said, "The wind bloweth were it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh or whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." Earlier He had told Nicodemus that except one was born again, or from above, he couldn't see or enter into the kingdom of God. So everyone is born the same way, by the Spirit which moves according to the will of God, and only those born of God enter into the kingdom.
The idea of being "saved by grace" for young people and "saved by grace through faith" for older folks is totally unbiblical. The bible describes one and only one method of salvation and that is the blood of Jesus Christ. I'm not preaching infants or the mentally handicapped to hell, I'm saying they are saved the same way we are, by what Jesus Christ did.
The idea of being "saved by grace" for young people and "saved by grace through faith" for older folks is totally unbiblical. The bible describes one and only one method of salvation and that is the blood of Jesus Christ. I'm not preaching infants or the mentally handicapped to hell, I'm saying they are saved the same way we are, by what Jesus Christ did.
On the contrary, Augustinian original sin requires different dispensations of salvation. If one holds to the biblical view of a sinner being one who sins, there is no problems whatsoever. Infants are not guilty, period.
Strawman. Everyone in heaven is saved by the work of Christ. He defeated sin AND death.
So, what did the work of Christ do exactly for the sinless infant?
How did I put forth a straw man argument? You said the infant was not guilty. An innocent (or not guilty) person doesn't need the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to put away sins since this person isn't guilty of sinning. Thus, an innocent person would gain access to heaven by virtue of being innocent, or righteous in themselves.
The only reason any person is declared just or righteous is because Christ's work on the cross covered that person's sins (thus fullilling the demands of the law against that particular person) and because the perfect righteousness of Christ is given unto that person by God. This is needed because, according to Psalm 53, "every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Every single member of the human race is guilty, thus needed the righteousness of Christ to be declared just.
The only reason any person is declared just or righteous is because Christ's work on the cross covered that person's sins (thus fullilling the demands of the law against that particular person) and because the perfect righteousness of Christ is given unto that person by God. This is needed because, according to Psalm 53, "every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Every single member of the human race is guilty, thus needed the righteousness of Christ to be declared just.
Eradicated death and the sin nature, which alone is at enmity with God
Adam and Eve were the first created humans. Naturally they were without sin. They did sin, however, and the tainted the entire human race, including infants. Original sin was documented by Augustine, but it was not invented by Augustine. ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God,,,,,,,,and in need of redeeming grace.
I grew up in the church and even believed, but I did not grow into a redemptive state. I had to believe that Jesus died for me and experience being born again. If any child is saved, it is by the hand of God in grace. Even in the Calvin quote he has infants saved by grace and others passed by as reprobate..........yes, infants! Amazing!
Even theology has wishful thinking by times.
Calvin also sprinkled (baptized) infants as a covenant promise to raise them in the Christian religion, a continuation of circumcision and its covenant promise. It did not save them in the NT sense, but committed them to God.
Cheers,
Jim
I grew up in the church and even believed, but I did not grow into a redemptive state. I had to believe that Jesus died for me and experience being born again. If any child is saved, it is by the hand of God in grace. Even in the Calvin quote he has infants saved by grace and others passed by as reprobate..........yes, infants! Amazing!
Even theology has wishful thinking by times.
Calvin also sprinkled (baptized) infants as a covenant promise to raise them in the Christian religion, a continuation of circumcision and its covenant promise. It did not save them in the NT sense, but committed them to God.
Cheers,
Jim
I think you are misreading what James is saying, I think a better word to use is "action". James is advocating faith in action and not works of the law.
So to finish that verse in James, "when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?". Abraham faith went into action when he offered his son. Then he repeated the words from Hebrews, his faith was counted for righteousness.
So you believe it is the sin nature that damn man to death and not any actual act of sin.
You would also be saying God would sentence souls to eternal death whose had no chance to repent.
Do you believe these souls will be given a chance to repent at the final preaching of the Gospel (Rev 14:xx I believe).
Marcia
Active Member
I agree with the part of Jim's statement that is pasted above.
Christ did not "eradicate" our sin nature; He paid for the penalty for sin and freed those who are saved from the bondage to sin. We still have a sin nature after we are saved; we are just not in bondage to it.
And everyone is born with a sin nature.
No one is 'innocent.' Everyone is born with a sin nature and God is too holy to abide the taint of any sin, including the sin of the sin nature.
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Christ did eradicate the sin nature with His death and resurrection, else we will carry that into eternity. Christ's death eternally does away with the sin nature which is at enmity with God. This is what an infant has...an infant is not a sinner (one who sins).