I've Given Up Dispensationalism...

[webdog]

Perhaps you could cite some of the flaws in Pentecost's reasoning that you detected. You've informed us that you are "disillusioned" but have not told us why or the process that you wrestled through.

I would also like to know...

 

[swaimj]

Israel, the present state, is a long ways off even coming close to their own historic beliefs let alone adopt Christian beliefs.

I've just finished reading through I&II Kings in my devotions. You could make this same statement about Judah many times during their OT history. However, no matter how far they strayed, God continued to preserve them as a people because of his promises to the patriarchs. The fact that Israel has become a nation in our modern times shows that God is still preserving them as an ethnic people and he will one day turn their hearts back to Himself. Otherwise, we have to conclude that God is a liar.

 

[go2church]

For the record I consider myself to be amill

Just curious - It was mentioned that "God is still preserving them as an ethnic people" how are Jews ethnically different from other Middle Eastern people?

 

[OldRegular]

I've just finished reading through I&II Kings in my devotions. You could make this same statement about Judah many times during their OT history. However, no matter how far they strayed, God continued to preserve them as a people because of his promises to the patriarchs. The fact that Israel has become a nation in our modern times shows that God is still preserving them as an ethnic people and he will one day turn their hearts back to Himself. Otherwise, we have to conclude that God is a liar.

I am amazed at how frequently the dispensationalists on this Forum conclude that God is a liar if HE doesn't accept their erroneous, sometimes heretical, doctrines.

 

[swaimj]

Old Regular, careful about throwing around the word "heretical". If I'm a heretic, then BB needs to throw me off. If I'm a heretic and they won't throw me off, then you should leave in protest.

Why so many conversations with you veer from the subject into mudslinging?

 

[swaimj]

Just curious - It was mentioned that "God is still preserving them as an ethnic people" how are Jews ethnically different from other Middle Eastern people?

Jews are the physical descendants of Abraham through the promised son Isaac.

 

[OldRegular]

Old Regular, careful about throwing around the word "heretical". If I'm a heretic, then BB needs to throw me off. If I'm a heretic and they won't throw me off, then you should leave in protest.

Why so many conversations with you veer from the subject into mudslinging?

All I can say about my remark is that if the shoe fits wear it. Many dispensationalists believe that there are or were two different Gospels preached. That is obviously heretical. You could do the honorable thing like Ituttut!

Furthermore, if concluding that God is a liar because you cannot understand His Written Word then you obviously have no concept of mudslinging, or for that matter blasphemy.

I don't believe I have seen any of Covenant persuasion conclude that God is a liar. If they do then I would say the same to them.

 

[Me4Him]

For the record I consider myself to be amill

Just curious - It was mentioned that "God is still preserving them as an ethnic people" how are Jews ethnically different from other Middle Eastern people?

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they (JEWS) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Show me another "Group/Race" of people who can be "enemies of the Gospel" and are still considered as "ELECT",

for the "SAKE" of the "FATHER" keeping his promise to Abraham???

 

[swaimj]

All I can say about my remark is that if the shoe fits wear it.

OR, if this is all that you can say about your remark, why did you continue to type 6 additional sentences? You make no sense.

 

[OldRegular]

For the record I consider myself to be amill

Just curious - It was mentioned that "God is still preserving them as an ethnic people" how are Jews ethnically different from other Middle Eastern people?

As I recall Isaac had a half brother named now what was that name?

Now I know it was Lot. No! No that was his Abraham's nephew.

I have it now, it was Ishmael of whom God said He would make a nation.

I tell you, there is nothing that beats checking the Bible.

Then of course Jacob [Israel] had a brother named Esau, and so it goes.

And of course Abraham had a bunch of children after Sarah died.

One other little matter, well two.

All the 12 sons of Jacob married other than Israelites and the Jews are apparently the two southern tribes carried into Babylon.

If I got anything wrong I am sure some good dispensationalist out there will gleefully correct me.

 

[Palatka51]

I've just finished reading through I&II Kings in my devotions. You could make this same statement about Judah many times during their OT history. However, no matter how far they strayed, God continued to preserve them as a people because of his promises to the patriarchs. The fact that Israel has become a nation in our modern times shows that God is still preserving them as an ethnic people and he will one day turn their hearts back to Himself. Otherwise, we have to conclude that God is a liar.

Matthew 20;1-16
1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Please note that the first hired got payed last and the last hired got paid first. Did not God call Israel to serve Him first? Did not the Gentiles get called later by the preaching of Paul?

The last great revival in this world will be "ethnic Israel."

 

[OldRegular]

OR, if this is all that you can say about your remark, why did you continue to type 6 additional sentences? You make no sense.

That is what is so sad about those who conclude that God is a liar because they cannot understand His Written Word. They can't understand the blasphemy of their belief about God.

 

[webdog]

That is what is so sad about those who conclude that God is a liar because they cannot understand His Written Word. They can't understand the blasphemy of their belief about God.

Nobody has concluded God is a liar...that is your pet peeve ad hominem. Dispensationalists are apparently the only ones who PROPERLY understand God's written Word.

 

[Me4Him]

All the 12 sons of Jacob married other than Israelites and the Jews are apparently the two southern tribes carried into Babylon.

If I got anything wrong I am sure some good dispensationalist out there will gleefully correct me.

Be glad too. :laugh:

The ten northern tribe were conquered about 135 years before the two southern tribes, which were kept in captivity 70, making the northern tribes in captivity about 205 years.

When the Southern tribes return, some of the northern tribes also returned, settling back in the land they were originally given, "EPHRAIM'S PORTION", better known as Samaria, and they became known as "Samaritans",

The woman at the well claimed Jacob as her ancestor.

The Southern tribes divorced all non Jewish women, the northern tribes did not, this continues the split between the tribes.

Ephraim was prophesied to be the "Father" of a "multitude of nations", Gentiles, the woman at the well prefigures Jesus and his "BRIDE", the "Gentiles church".

You won't find Ephraim named in the twelve tribes sealed in Revelation, he represents the Rapture church, but you will find his brother, Manasseh as one of the tribes, he replaces the tribe of "DAN",

from which many believe Judas the betrayer came.

 

[Jarthur001]

Nobody has concluded God is a liar...that is your pet peeve ad hominem. Dispensationalists are apparently the only ones who PROPERLY understand God's written Word.

:laugh::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Nobody has concluded God is a liar...that is your pet peeve ad hominem. Dispensationalists are apparently the only ones who PROPERLY understand God's written Word.

Apparently you don't read very well:

Posted by swaimj
I've just finished reading through I&II Kings in my devotions. You could make this same statement about Judah many times during their OT history. However, no matter how far they strayed, God continued to preserve them as a people because of his promises to the patriarchs. The fact that Israel has become a nation in our modern times shows that God is still preserving them as an ethnic people and he will one day turn their hearts back to Himself. Otherwise, we have to conclude that God is a liar.

To say that Israel still exists as a unique ethnic people is about as foolish as saying that the Normans who invaded England are still a unique ethnic people. In fact Jesus Christ in His human nature was not of unique Judean or Jewish ethnicity. There was a Gentile or two thrown in the mix.

 

[OldRegular]

Be glad too. :laugh:

The ten northern tribe were conquered about 135 years before the two southern tribes, which were kept in captivity 70, making the northern tribes in captivity about 205 years.

When the Southern tribes return, some of the northern tribes also returned, settling back in the land they were originally given, "EPHRAIM'S PORTION", better known as Samaria, and they became known as "Samaritans",

The woman at the well claimed Jacob as her ancestor.

The Southern tribes divorced all non Jewish women, the northern tribes did not, this continues the split between the tribes.

Ephraim was prophesied to be the "Father" of a "multitude of nations", Gentiles, the woman at the well prefigures Jesus and his "BRIDE", the "Gentiles church".

You won't find Ephraim named in the twelve tribes sealed in Revelation, he represents the Rapture church, but you will find his brother, Manasseh as one of the tribes, he replaces the tribe of "DAN",

from which many believe Judas the betrayer came.

You have posted that same old crab before.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Nobody has concluded God is a liar...that is your pet peeve ad hominem. Dispensationalists are apparently the only ones who PROPERLY understand God's written Word.

Dispensationalism or Darby/Scofieldism was born out of the same turmoil that produced the Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Christian Science, etc..

 

[gb93433]

Dispensationalism or Darby/Scofieldism was born out of the same turmoil that produced the Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Christian Science, etc..

I do not know that I would go that far. However it did fall on the heels of German Rationalism. Dispensationalism has been in an evolutiuonary state in the past 40 years or so. While God's word has not changed dispensationalism has.

 

[Me4Him]

You have posted that same old crab before.:laugh:

Jesus preached the gospel to Israel, and they didn't learn anything either. :BangHead: :laugh: :laugh: