Where's the Beef: faith/BAG or BAG/Faith

[Winman]

Old Regular

I thought I responded directly to your question, maybe I missed something. But why does one person believe and another does not? That question is answered directly in the scriptures.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Pretty simple, those that love and do evil hate the light and refuse to come to it. And those that doeth truth choose to come to the light.

Calvinists cannot accept this because they cannot believe a lost person can do good, but that is not what the scriptures teach. The scriptures teach that a lost person can hunger and thirst after righteousness.

Matt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Now, this has to mean the unsaved, because the saved have Christ's righteousness imputed unto them. They are filled with Christ's righteousness. You cannot be hungry and filled at the same time.

And Jesus said he would give those who ask the water of life and they would never thirst again, so a person thirsty for righteousness must be unsaved, because the saved will never thirst again.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Evil people hate light because it exposes them. Criminals love the night because they can commit their evil deeds without being seen.

Job 24:13 They are of those that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor abide in the paths thereof.
14 The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief.
15 The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.
16 In the dark they dig through houses, which they had marked for themselves in the daytime: they know not the light.
17 For the morning is to them even as the shadow of death: if one know them, they are in the terrors of the shadow of death.

Now, I will say this in agreement with Calvinism, that those that choose to come to Christ have been influenced by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit. They have been drawn.

Let me give an example that might explain. America is known as the melting pot. Millions have come here from all nations. Why? They come because they have heard of the freedom here, that a man can exercise free speech without fear of the government. They have heard they can own their own property or business and allowed to prosper according to their own effort. They have heard of the freedom of religion where the Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu and others can live in peace. When men hear this they are drawn to America.

It is the same with Christ. Men hear that their sins can be forgiven. Men hear that they will be raised from the dead and have eternal life with the Father, God himself. There will be no more sickness, pain, or the loss of loved ones. There will be truth and righteousness there, no deceit or evil, no crime. And so men are drawn by these promises of the scriptures. The promises of God create desire within the heart of men to come to Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

Why does God choose one person for salvation and pass over the another?

Perhaps a Calvinist could answer the above but I doubt they would even try. Though I am not a Calvinist I am sure their answer would be the same as mine.

I would have to know the mind of God to answer that question and no man knows the mind of God.

It is my belief that those of us who understand that we are saved only because God chose us unto Salvation in Jesus Christ are truly humbled. We realize that we have been spared the wrath of God we so richly deserve and spared only by the Grace of God.

The following Scripture may help you understand. I don’t know:

Romans 9:14-24
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22.What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[OldRegular]

Question 1
What is the difference between the one who responds to the gospel and the one who does not?
Answer;
Rebellion
Question 2
Is the one who responds smarter, more perceptive, more tender-hearted, more sensitive?
Answer;
No: The one who responds just doesn't rebel.
Question 3
Is he more disposed to respond than another who doesn't? No: Just less rebellious.
Question 4
Does one possess more ability to choose than another? No all are equal in the sight of God
Question 5
what IS the difference?
Answer:
There is none
Question 6
"Who makes you to differ from one another? And what do you have that you didn't receive?".....
Answer;
Nothing but a willingness to listen to the gospel being preached.

As often as rebellion is spoken of in the Bible what part didn't you understand?.
MB

You answered nothing!:laugh::laugh:

 

[Winman]

Perhaps a Calvinist could answer the above but I doubt they would even try. Though I am not a Calvinist I am sure their answer would be the same as mine.

I would have to know the mind of God to answer that question and no man knows the mind of God.

It is my belief that those of us who understand that we are saved only because God chose us unto Salvation in Jesus Christ are truly humbled. We realize that we have been spared the wrath of God we so richly deserve and spared only by the Grace of God.

The following Scripture may help you understand. I don’t know:

Romans 9:14-24
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22.What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Old Regular, you are taking these verses out of context. What do the verses before these say, and what do the verses following these say? Let's see.

The verses before:

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

These verses are showing that God has chosen those who come to him through faith, and that a man is not saved simply because they are a descendent of Abraham.

God has chosen one way of salvation and one way only. That is by faith in Jesus Christ. You cannot be saved by works, you cannot be saved by belonging to a church, organization, or because you are descended physically from someone who is saved. Esau was just as much a descendent of Abraham as Jacob was, but God hated Esau and loved Jacob. Why? Because Jacob believed the promises of God and coveted the blessings of his father Isaac, while Esau did not believe the promises and sold his birthright for a bowl of soup.

So God will have mercy on those who come by faith in Jesus, and will show wrath on those who try to come another way.

Now, we will look at the verses following those you showed and see that they say the same thing.

Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Here once again it is showing that God will have mercy on the Gentiles who come by faith in Jesus and show wrath to the Jews. Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but by the works of the law.

By pulling verses 14-24 out of context you have changed the meaning of this whole chapter. The chapter is contrasting faith versus works or ancestry. This chapter is showing God has chosen those who come by faith to be saved, and will show wrath on all others.

And if you have ever gone soul-winning you will hear these very arguments by the lost. They will claim they are good people (works). They believe God will choose good people regardless of what religion they belong too. And some believe they will be saved because they belong to a particular church. The RCs believe this, as well as JWs, and many other groups.

You misunderstand this chapter because you pull verses out of context.

 

[OldRegular]

Winman

Believe what you want. If you are arrogant enough to believe that God could not save you without your help then so be it. God forgives sins, even those that stem from arrogance.

 

[Winman]

Who's arrogant? I show scripture.

You conveniently pull scripture out of context to fit your pre-conceived belief and ignore a multitude of scripture that contradicts it.

I believe God and God only can save a man. I believe that God has provided his Holy scriptures that a man can hear the word of God and believe on Christ. Without the scriptures, no man could be saved for we would have no knowledge of God, sin, or Christ.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Christ told the Pharisees to search the scriptures.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

You believe the Holy Spirit regenerates a man to believe, while the scriptures teach that faith comes by hearing the word of God. Do you not see that the scriptures are all important? Jesus told the Pharisess that if they believed not the "writings" of Moses, then they would not believe his words either.

And this is shown again in Luke.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

God persuades a man to believe through the scriptures, he does not impose faith on them as you falsely teach.

 

[Benefactor]

ha ha ha....:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ben...you have very poor understanding on Calvinism. Let me say it again..Ordo Salutis. Google it. Read about it.


I know what you are trying to say...but you are WAY off ben. get the wording right, then we can talk

Do you personally believe that salvation comes before faith?.



Arminian Order of Salvation

Calling - enabling grace
Conversion which includes the following:

1 Repentance, faith, Confession

2. Resulting in Regeneration, Justification, Sanctification


Calvinistic Order of Salvation - a False Doctrine

Regeneration
Calling - effectual
Repentance
Faith
Justification
Sanctification

 

[Darrenss1]

Not exactly sure of the point you are making.

The question Calvinist ask regarding why does one believe while the other doesn't, stems from an assumption based on the premise that the Total Depravity of man is true. For the non Calvinist the question fails because it is built on a false premise (Total Depravity). What I am saying is the focus isn't just on those that respond to the gospel in the sense of a positive response BUT that man responds also in a negative way; A negative response is still a response nevertheless.

It becomes a different issue and question considering man's fallen condition, Totally Depraved (Calvinist view) is different from simply being Depraved (non Calvinist view). That's the point I was trying to make.

Darren

 

[Winman]

Benefactor

That is their easy out, they will always say you do not understand Calvinism.

Old Religion, here are verses that directly show we are saved by the word of God.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Darrenss1]

Winman

Believe what you want. If you are arrogant enough to believe that God could not save you without your help then so be it. God forgives sins, even those that stem from arrogance.

Who said anything about helping God? God offers Salvation to man, man responds and receives that salvation by faith alone without works; by responding man allows God to do the saving 100%. God gets all the glory in 1 sinner that repents and comes to Christ and is saved.

Darren

 

[Benefactor]

Benefactor

That is their easy out, they will always say you do not understand Calvinism.

Old Religion, here are verses that directly show we are saved by the word of God.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I know. They know too, but to admit it is to admit defeat and their Calvinistic Castle Crumbles.

 

[Winman]

Believe what you want

It is comical when Calvinists say things like this. :laugh:

 

[Tom Butler]

Why does God choose one person for salvation and pass over the another?

The Calvinist cannot answer these questions any more than I can answer why my neighbor rejected Christ and I did not.

You're right about the first question. I don't know, except that it was what he wanted, for his good pleasure, and for his glory.

But I can answer the second question. The Holy Spirit gave you a heart of flesh for your heart of stone and created faith in you. Now I know that's not what you believe, but it is the answer that Calvinists have.

 

[Allan]

In all fairness, why not post the entire paragraph (you just posted the last sentence), as well as the sentence following? It says...

"Let the Papists now go and proudly vaunt of their free-will, but let us, who are conscious of our own slavery, glory in none but Christ our Deliverer."

If you are going to quote an author it is never right to quote so as to leave a false impression.

No false impression 'at all' brother. He was quoting exactly what Calvin stated that is specific to this conversation, regeneration procedes from faith or to state this phrase as is being discussed - Faith precedes regeneration.

If you are saying that J.Calvin did not actaully state this then show such proof and your allegation will stand. However if and since he did state that faith precedes regeneration, then just accept it.

Here is what is stated in full:

The truth shall make you free. He commends the knowledge of the Gospel from the fruit which we derive from it, or — which is the same thing — from its effect, namely, that it restores us to freedom This is an invaluable blessing. Hence it follows, that nothing is more excellent or desirable than the knowledge of the Gospel. All men feel and acknowledge that slavery is a very wretched state; and since the Gospel delivers us from it, it follows that we derive from the Gospel the treasure of a blessed life.

We must now ascertain what kind of liberty is here described by Christ, namely, that which sets us free from the tyranny of Satan, sin, and death. And if we obtain it by means of the Gospel, it is evident from this that we are by nature the slaves of sin. Next, we must ascertain what is the method of our deliverance. For so long as we are governed by our sense and by our natural disposition, we are in bondage to sin; but when the Lord regenerates us by his Spirit, he likewise makes us free, so that, loosed from the snares of Satan, we willingly obey righteousness. But regeneration proceeds from faith, and hence it is evident that freedom proceeds from the Gospel.

Let Papists now go and proudly vaunt of their free-will, but let us, who are conscious of our own slavery, glory in none but Christ our Deliverer. For the reason why the Gospel ought to be reckoned to have achieved our deliverance is, that it offers and gives us to Christ to be freed from the yoke of sin. Lastly, we ought to observe, that freedom has its degrees according to the measure of their faith; and therefore Paul, though clearly made free, still groans and longs after perfect freedom, (Romans 7:24.)

Now in keeping with his understanding that the gospel (and thus Christ) that sets them free he holds to be only revealed (not just preached) to those whom God will save. However, John Calvin asserts without equivocation that faith precedes regeneration 'because' regeneration IS salvation.

In the Reformed view regeneration preceding faith is 'only' a logical construct regarding order and not that it is one stated specifically in scripture. But there are many Cals (Not Supralapsarian but subs - if memory serves) that agree faith precedes regeneration.

 

[Amy.G]

I don't know, except that it was what he wanted, for his good pleasure, and for his glory.

He does not "pass over" people for His good pleasure.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God's good pleasure is for the wicked to turn to Him, not for them to die. Their death brings him no pleasure.

So when a Calvinist says that God's "passing over" of people (resulting in eternal death) gives Him pleasure, that is anti-biblical.

 

[Jarthur001]

Do you personally believe that salvation comes before faith?.



Arminian Order of Salvation

Calling - enabling grace
Conversion which includes the following:

1 Repentance, faith, Confession

2. Resulting in Regeneration, Justification, Sanctification


Calvinistic Order of Salvation - a False Doctrine

Regeneration
Calling - effectual
Repentance
Faith
Justification
Sanctification

If you mean ...do I believe Regeneration comes before Faith? Yes. Tis the gospel man.

 

[Jerome]

Let's hear from a prominent Particular Baptist minister:

Abraham Booth, Glad Tidings to Perishing Sinners (London, 1800) pp. 136-138.

"To contend, indeed, that regeneration must be prior to faith, and to justification, is like maintaining, That the eldest son of a nobleman must partake of the human nature, before he can have that filial relation to his father, which constitutes him an heir to the paternal estate, and entitles him to those honours which are hereditary in the family. For the human nature, derived from his parents, and the relation of a son, being completely of the same date; there is no such thing as priority, or posteriority, respecting them, either as to the order of time, or the order of nature. They are inseparable; nor can the one exist without the other---Thus it is, I conceive, with regards to regeneration, faith in Christ, and justification before God. For, to consider any man as born of God, but not as a child of God; as a child of God, but not believing in Jesus Christ; as believing in Jesus Christ, but not as justified; or as justified, but not as an heir of immortal felicity; is, either to the last degree absurd, or manifestly contrary to apostolic doctrine."

 

[Jarthur001]

In the Reformed view regeneration preceding faith is 'only' a logical construct regarding order and not that it is one stated specifically in scripture. But there are many Cals (Not Supralapsarian but subs - if memory serves) that agree faith precedes regeneration.

and maybe a bit of support as well.

What it comes down to is a monergistic view. Does God do something that cause man to believe. Or does man believe 1st.

And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

 

[OldRegular]

I asked a simple question of the freewillers: What was it in your psyche that caused you to believe when others don't. Until you can answer that question you really have nothing to say worth listening to or rather reading?

None of the verbiage in the above posts even comes close!

 

[Winman]

I answered you as directly as I knew how way back in post #190. I will show it again.

Old Regular asked (several times)



I don't know if I would say I was "caused" to believe, I would say that I was persuaded to believe. And the answer for me personally was the scriptures. When I read the scriptures I knew they were true, because they revealed man, and revealed myself as I truly am. Whether I liked to believe it or not, the scriptures revealed my own sinfulness to me. I knew no man would ever write a book like this.

The scriptures also convinced me that I was in danger of hell for my sins, but that Jesus was the Son of God and died for me and all men on the cross, taking my sins upon himself, and that three days later he rose from the dead.

And I believed when the scriptures said if I would confess I was a sinner and come to Jesus that my sins would be forgiven. And so I prayed sincerely to Jesus and confessed I was a sinner, lost and on my way to hell, and prayed that he would forgive all my sins, come into my heart, and give me eternal life.

I was an 11 year old boy when I prayed this prayer and you know what? I could tell the Holy Spirit came into me. And I have known that the Holy Spirit dwells in me since that moment. I don't know if I could explain it to anyone, but I felt the Holy Spirit enter me. And it was not just a feeling, but a change in mind and thoughts also.

Where you and I differ is not that God saves a man. Where we differ is when the Holy Spirit enters a man. I believe, and many scriptures confirm, that the Holy Spirit enters a man AFTER believeing. You believe the Holy Spirit regenerates a man before believeing.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:13 clearly shows that a man trusts or believes after hearing the word of truth (God's word), the gospel of salvation. After hearing and believeing, then a man is sealed with the Holy Spirit.

You try to prove the Holy Spirit quickens a man to believe from Ephesians chapter 2, but nowhere in that chapter is the order of events that take place in salvation mentioned. But Eph 1:13 is very specific on the order of events that take place.

You say the spiritually dead cannot hear or believe God's word. I believe John chapter 5 proves otherwise.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This verse clearly says that those who hear God's word and believe hath everlasting life and are passed FROM death to life. So, they were clearly spiritually dead until they listened and believed the scriptures. And the next verse more clearly verifies this.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

This is not speaking of the resurrection, because it says the hour "now is". The resurrection is future. This verse is saying the spirtually dead can indeed hear the word of God, and that those that "hear" shall live. This means those that choose to listen and believe.

Now at this point we see a change in subject, and the Lord now speaks of judgement. Now Jesus does speak of the resurrection and uses a very similar verse as 25, but uses a few different terms that make a big difference.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

The word "also" shows that Jesus is speaking of a different subject than in verses 24 and 25. Now the subject is the resurrection and the judgement. And notice the changes in verse 28 from verse 25.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Notice Jesus did not say "and now is" as in verse 25. Also, Jesus does not say the "dead" here, he says "all that are in the graves". This is now speaking of the physically dead, whether saved or unsaved (all).

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So there is a difference between verses 24-25 and verse 28. Verse 24 and 25 are showing that a spirtually dead person can hear and believe the gospel, and those that believe will be given life.

Verse 28 is speaking of the resurrection of both the saved and unsaved.

But verses 24-25 show the unsaved, unregenerate man can hear the word of God and believe. And going back to Eph 1:13, those who hear and believe are sealed with the Holy Ghost. It is the Holy Ghost that quickens and regenerates a man.