Peter Masters on John Piper

[Aaron]

(Tho't I posted this last night, but I don't see it anywhere.)

http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/Literature/2002-3A_Christian_Hedonisim.shtml

Thus, a psalm to which Dr Piper appeals in order to justify his central organising principle, actually teaches the opposite, upholding a multi-track approach to sanctification.
It is therefore necessary to say - take great care with the Scriptures advanced by Dr Piper. They are obviously quoted in all sincerity, with passion and conviction, but they never truly support his very singular scheme.

 

[Brian Bosse]

Hello Aaron,

I am a fan of Piper, and would be happy to interact with you on this topic. I really do not care to critique Peter Masters even though I do not mind you using his arguments. Do you have an issue with Piper's Christian Hedonism?

Sincerely,

Brian

 

[Lux et veritas]

Hello Aaron,

I am a fan of Piper, and would be happy to interact with you on this topic. I really do not care to critique Peter Masters even though I do not mind you using his arguments. Do you have an issue with Piper's Christian Hedonism?

Sincerely,

Brian

Emphatically yes. By the way, Dr. Masters has just written an excellent article exposing some of the serious problems with Piper and John MacArthur.

And, no Christian should be a 'fan' (short for fanatic) of anyone but Jesus Christ.

 

[preachinjesus]

If we could ever harness the power and energy that goes into arguing and attacking other Christan ministries, redirect it towards actually doing something about the Gospel we might well see the world changed before our eyes.

Satan loves seeing Christ's people redirected from the priority of the Gospel onto peripherial issues.

 

[Allan]

I laughed when I read this portion about Dr. Masters thoughts on Piper:

He is a master of the oblique approach, but at times his rather contrived reasoning leaves one grateful that Scripture, by contrast, is so straightforward and free from philosophical gymnastics

FTR - I'm neither for nor against either.

 

[Lux et veritas]

If we could ever harness the power and energy that goes into arguing and attacking other Christan ministries, redirect it towards actually doing something about the Gospel we might well see the world changed before our eyes.

Satan loves seeing Christ's people redirected from the priority of the Gospel onto peripherial issues.

What exactly would you define as a peripherial issue that Christians should not deal with? Remember, your 'peripherial issue' may be someone else's central one. But for the sake of discussion, what would you call a peripherial issue?

 

[Johnv]

What exactly would you define as a peripherial issue that Christians should not deal with? Remember, your 'peripherial issue' may be someone else's central one. But for the sake of discussion, what would you call a peripherial issue?

You make a good point. What often happens, though, is that those for which an issue is central will often berate the person for whom that same issue is peripheral.

 

[TCGreek]

If we could ever harness the power and energy that goes into arguing and attacking other Christan ministries, redirect it towards actually doing something about the Gospel we might well see the world changed before our eyes.

Satan loves seeing Christ's people redirected from the priority of the Gospel onto peripherial issues.

Amen, brother!

 

[pinoybaptist]

If we could ever harness the power and energy that goes into arguing and attacking other Christan ministries, redirect it towards actually doing something about the Gospel we might well see the world changed before our eyes.

Agree and disagree.

Agree - on attacking other "Christian" ministries.

Disagree: "world changed before our eyes". Not discounting the power of the gospel, but the gospel was not meant to change the world. It is meant for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, and for the instruction of the saints unto righteousness.

Having said that, I believe the problem is that sinners will always have their "Pauls and Apolloses and Cephases" to follow instead of just focusing on Christ and His words, the Bible, and asking for wisdom from the One who truly gives wisdom and understanding, the Holy Spirit.

Some redeemed sinner goes and gets a doctorate and sits down and "exercises" the "wisdom" he got from his seminary from subjects that teach him how to read and write and research like a college or masteral student and lo, and behold, he comes out with an interpretation of this and that scripture and pretty soon he has a following.

Now he must maintain that sudden "fame" and so he churns out book after book after book and soon he is on the speaking circuit, and now the entire world beckons to him and his ego must be fed and so he uses all the technology he can.

But I suppose there will come a day when we all shall sit at the Master's feet or walk with the Master as the two did on their way to Emmaus and the Master Himself will open the scriptures, and if we shall know each other by spirit or by face at that point we all will be rolling with laughter (figuratively speaking) at each other's follies and we all will definitely be bowing in reverence and awe at the Master's feet for His grace and mercy at not striking us down immediately as we propose so many of our fallen doctrines.

 

[Jerome]

‘This is explosive’; ‘This is stunning’; ‘This is radical’; ‘This is dangerous’; ‘This is not safe’; ‘This is surprising’. . . . He also calls it ‘my theology’.
Dr Piper’s publisher calls his book a ‘paradigm-shattering work’, and bids the reader join Dr Piper ‘as he stuns you again and again with life impacting truths you saw in the Bible, but never dared to believe.’ The reality is that no one ever saw them like this in the Bible until Dr Piper pointed them out in the 1980s.

Sour grapes. What "movement" or "ism" has Masters created?

 

[Aaron]

Hello Aaron,

I am a fan of Piper, and would be happy to interact with you on this topic. I really do not care to critique Peter Masters even though I do not mind you using his arguments. Do you have an issue with Piper's Christian Hedonism?

Sincerely,

Brian

I'm not interested at all in Piper or his ministry, but I know many are and was wanting to see their reactions.

If Masters is accurate in his descriptions of Pipers doctrines, I would reject them (if I were to ever consider them in the first place.)

 

[Brian Bosse]

Hello Aaron,

I'm not interested at all in Piper or his ministry, but I know many are and was wanting to see their reactions.

As a Piper fan (sorry Lux - it is just a figue of speech), what I have found is that those who are critical of others sometimes have not understood the person their criticims are directed towards. Along with others in this thread, I question the purpose of this thread. Although, I think there is a legitimate place to bring criticisms against teaching that is thought to be false this does not seem to be why you started this thread.

Brian

 

[Revmitchell]

(Tho't I posted this last night, but I don't see it anywhere.)

http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/Literature/2002-3A_Christian_Hedonisim.shtml

Talk about a lot of words that say very little. I do not pay a lot of attention to Piper, but this article seems to be looking for a problem where none exists. The article is redundant and could possible be finished up in a couple paragraphs. Even then it would still be a waste of space.

 

[FlyForFun]

Talk about a lot of words that say very little. I do not pay a lot of attention to Piper, but this article seems to be looking for a problem where none exists. The article is redundant and could possible be finished up in a couple paragraphs. Even then it would still be a waste of space.

Agreed. I was wading through asking myself, "And the point is....?"

 

[Aaron]

If we could ever harness the power and energy that goes into arguing and attacking other Christan ministries, redirect it towards actually doing something about the Gospel we might well see the world changed before our eyes.

Satan loves seeing Christ's people redirected from the priority of the Gospel onto peripherial issues.

You're overlooking the positive things that Masters said about Piper and his ministry overall.

It is this central point (Christian Hedonism) that Masters is warning his congregation about.

 

[Aaron]

Although, I think there is a legitimate place to bring criticisms against teaching that is thought to be false this does not seem to be why you started this thread.

You're right. As I said, I started the thread to see what others' reactions to Masters' article would be. So far, nothing of substance from the Piper devotees—simply defensiveness.

 

[FlyForFun]

You're right. As I said, I started the thread to see what others' reactions to Masters' article would be. So far, nothing of substance from the Piper devotees—simply defensiveness.

Careful with the ad Hominems...

I'm not a "devotee" of Piper, but Master's rambling, rather pointless tome left me convinced he was picking nits.

 

[webdog]

If we could ever harness the power and energy that goes into arguing and attacking other Christan ministries, redirect it towards actually doing something about the Gospel we might well see the world changed before our eyes.

Satan loves seeing Christ's people redirected from the priority of the Gospel onto peripherial issues.

I agree, yet we see nobody ever speaking out against MacArthur always tearing apart various ministries because they don't align with HIS definition of repentance. It's almost like he is the Baptist Pope, and nobody dare speak out against him. Fools Gold is but one example. Many more can be found on youtube.

 

[Aaron]

Careful with the ad Hominems...

I'm not a "devotee" of Piper, but Master's rambling, rather pointless tome left me convinced he was picking nits.

Rambling and pointless it was not. Did he assert something with which you disagree?

 

[FlyForFun]

Rambling and pointless it was not. Did he assert something with which you disagree?

It's hard to disagree when there's no clear point.

"Christian Hedonism" is suspect.

Eureka.:sleep: